On this popup episode, former federal inmate Tanesha Bannister discusses her story of redemption after spending 16 years behind bars and the challenges to work that people with criminal records face including securing occupational licenses. You can learn more about her story here.

Transcript

Beverly Hallberg:

Hey everyone. It’s Beverly Hallberg. Welcome to a special pop-up episode of She Thinks, your favorite podcast from the Independent Women’s Forum where we talk with women, and sometimes men, about the policy issues that impact you and the people you care about most. Enjoy.

Patrice:

Hi, this is Patrice. I’m a senior policy analyst at the Independent Women’s Forum. Today I’m chatting with Tanesha Bannister, a woman with a fascinating personal story of redemption. She’s become one of the faces of criminal justice reform, but there’s so much more to her story. As we figure out how to get over 30 million unemployed Americans back to work following this COVID-19 crisis, there are those for whom a criminal background may be an obstacle because of occupational licenses. That should not be so. We want Americans who want to work, to work. So at that, Tanesha, welcome to, She Thinks podcast.

Tanesha:

Thank you, Patrice. Thanks for having me. I’m happy to be able to sit and talk with you about the obstacles that we face for being incarcerated, about the occupational licenses.

Patrice:

Terrific. Well before we get into that, I want to know how are you doing? How are you coping with this crisis? And how is your family?

Tanesha:

Well, actually all is well on my end. There hasn’t really been any direct impact as far as me working with the line of work that I’m doing with this PCA work, but all is well outside of that.

Patrice:

Okay. Now, PCA, personal care assistant, is that correct?

Tanesha:

Correct. Correct.

Patrice:

Okay. And are your clients typically older folks or people who having autoimmune issues?

Tanesha:

Well, actually I cater to both. The elderly and the other clients I also care for our disabled.

Patrice:

Gotcha. So right now because of that, you’re not able to work. But do you think you’ll be able to work soon?

Tanesha:

Well, I’ve been told around mid-June.

Patrice:

Okay. Okay. Well, hopefully, we’ll hope and pray that you’ll be able to get back to work. I know a lot of folks are hoping so too. But it’s one of those situations where I think we’re all crossing our fingers and hoping that not only can we get back to work but that we can do so safely. So I’m hoping, praying for you in that regard. But let’s talk a little bit the issue today. Now, for folks listening, I met Tanesha at a White House event, and it’s funny, I didn’t realize you were the person I had written about two months prior in the Fall. Because you were one of the women who was released from federal prison early due to the Criminal Justice Reform Bill. So Tanesha, tell us about your story. How did you end up in prison?

Tanesha:

I went to prison back in 2002 for conspiracy charge for drugs. And as you know, the criminal justice system is broken when it comes to conspiracy. Because a lot of people get caught up and catch so much time that isn’t meant for the ones that’s at the bottom of the totem pole. However, the ones that are there are the ones that get stuck with so much time. When you have the others that’s at the top of the totem pole, get away for maybe a few years or just completely free.

Patrice:

Well, now, remind us, what was your original sentence? And then what was it commuted down to? And then how many years did you serve?

Tanesha:

Well, actually I was sentenced to a life in prison without parole because I exercise my right to go to trial, and I was punished for that. However, back in 2008, I won my direct appeal and was sentenced to 280 months, which is 23 years and 4 months. And I served 16 and a half years. And as a matter of fact, today makes my one-year anniversary being released from being incarcerated.

Patrice:

Wow. Happy anniversary. I’m sure celebrating freedom means a whole lot to you.

Tanesha:

Yes, it does. And I’m making the most of it. I’m doing things that I’m passionate about. There are things that I had intentions of pursuing as far as when it comes to doing hair. I’m a licensed cosmetologist that I got my license in 2015 in Florida. However, where I’m located in Columbia, South Carolina, is nonexistent. So it’s like I don’t even have a cosmetology license here because I have to retest because they don’t recognize it.

Patrice:

Wow. I mean, let’s just get right to it. I mean you did your time. You were, from what I’ve read, a model citizen. You took lots of classes, you got one of your degrees. You got licensed and you’re coming out with skills, and now, one state doesn’t want to recognize the license that you receive. So you really can’t utilize it in another state. How does that make you feel when it comes to occupational licenses? Is this a fair system?

Tanesha:

It isn’t and it’s unfortunate. But I think things need to change when it comes to occupational license because how can it not be recognized from one state to another? I mean, I took the class. I did the class for 12 months, over 1,200 hours, and got certified in it. But here I am today stuck not being able to utilize it because the state I’m from don’t want to recognize it.

Patrice:

What’s interesting is that your case is not the only one when it comes to occupational licenses in so many industries, from people who are massage therapists to, boy, truck drivers. Even in the medical profession we’ve seen how occupational licenses, those requirements can either be really costly and time consuming or they don’t transfer from state to state, like in your situation. And so [crosstalk 00:07:06] Independent Women’s Forum, we’re trying to bring attention to these regulations actually hold people back from working and from opportunity. Have you seen some of your former inmates friends who dealt with this issue?

Tanesha:

Of course. Even individuals that I know in the medical field, sometimes depending on what field you’re working in, in the medical field, your background can be a hindrance. And I don’t think that’s fair either, because if you are willing to work and live an honest decent life, and you’re going to go to school and get these skills and become certified, but when it’s time for you to work, you’re stigmatized and it’s like your past is holding you back from your future. And it’s unfortunate. So I pray something passes soon when it comes to that.

Patrice:

Yeah, I mean, I think what you’re talking about is some states, they have these blanket exclusions for people with criminal backgrounds or criminal records and it doesn’t even have anything to do with the job you may be applying for or how long ago-

Tanesha:

Exactly.

Patrice:

That offense happened. So I think you’re right. And when we look at recidivism in this country, a job, a steady income is the key to keeping people from going back in jail. Is that right?

Tanesha:

Exactly. And that the fact of the matter is after so long, people change. You’ve made better choices in life. You’re grounded. You’ve met common ground with who you want to be in life and who you were meant to be in life. And it’s like you’re stuck because your path is defining who you are at that moment, which is not so. And I believe everybody deserves a second chance.

Patrice:

That’s exactly right. I love that statement. Everybody deserves a second chance. Tanesha, I think this is an opportunity time for states and lawmakers to think about how they can change these regulations for people who have criminal convictions, for people who move from state to state. Even the requirements for the licenses involved, maybe they’re too heavy, too expensive, too time consuming, and they should be looking at scaling those back. And I think the health professionals is a great place because we need frontline emergency medical workers right now in places like New York and New Jersey. So I’m with you. I hope lawmakers hear this message and are willing to scale back the regulations. So tell me on the personal side, what are you up to today? Other than the personal care aide side, what are some of your ambitions? What are the things that you would like to do now that you’re out?

Tanesha:

Well, I’m really on the path to securing a future in the medical field. I have a son that was in an unfortunate accident four years ago and he’s disabled and he’s paralyzed from the waist down. So I’ve come to connect with the disabled and helping people. And I’m going to school to become a certified LPN starting in June. And I just hope and pray that I’m able to utilize the license once I get it. Because, like I said, sometime your background can hinder you from the future that you want to pursue. And here in South Carolina, unfortunately it’s still one of the states that have ban-the-box.

So, it’s like you’re already labeled before you get to the interview because of your background, and you don’t have the opportunity to go and present yourself and be honest and forward and straight upfront with what your path was and where you are now.

Patrice:

That’s an interesting aspect. For those who are listening, ban-the-box is a policy that that asks employers to remove the question on applications about whether someone has a criminal record, they’ve been convicted of a crime or anything related to kind of a criminal background. Removing that application question so that people can apply and be judged based on the merit of their application, their skills, their background rather than just one of a potential criminal records.

I think there’s a case to be made for employers really doing that voluntarily. Some people would advocate that government mandate that. I think that’s definitely up to lawmakers to decide. But you’re right in that there needs to be recognition. People should be judged based on the merits of their situation, of their experience, background, rather than just assuming that because they have a record, they’re not qualified. And that’s what we want to get away from.

So, Tanesha, with these last few moments, what is a parting message you would like for our audience to hear?

Tanesha:

Stay the course. Stay true and remain humble. Pursue your dreams. Nothing is impossible. Stand on your faith. Let’s not be moved by what things looked like. And God is in control and all things are possible for those who believe. So I would say continue to do what it is that you’re doing and not be held back from the feeling you may feel of being denied or not being able to succeed because of your past.

I’m a living example. I’ve done 16 and a half years. I’ve been home for one year. I came home with a lot of support. Unfortunately, every individual don’t have that. But there’s nothing that you are not able to do in life if you stay the course, remain true to who you are and trust and believe in yourself and a higher power. And I think you’ll be fine in life.

Patrice:

Very good. I thank you for that, Tanesha. We are committed to staying the course, for me personally and our organization, and really pushing forward policies that help individuals to pursue their dreams, like you’re saying. To be true to their authentic self and to know that there is a place for them in the workforce, there’s a place for them in society. And wherever government is standing in the way, let’s figure out how to make government an ally rather than an obstacle. So thank you for your time.

Tanesha:

Because so often society is misinformed about the formerly incarcerated from the thing that they might hear in the news or the things that they might think and they perceive you to be something that you’re far from. And so I thank God for people like you and your organization, for shining the highlight on things that we need to overcome and things that need to be worked on and is not swept under the rug. Because it’s sometimes a hard conversation to have for certain people. And I want to say it was a blessing that I sat at the table with you because I never knew the article that you’ve written on me last year existed. And just so happens that my feet was hurting that day and I came to set at the table beside you. And so it was an honor meeting you, Patricia. And I wish you all the best as well.

Patrice:

Thank you, Tanesha. That was a fun event. I’m glad it brought us together and some other awesome people working on criminal justice reform. All right, well thank you so much for your time.

To our She Thinks listeners, we appreciate your time today. This popup podcast is available. We ask that you listen and share it with your family and friends. And if you have a story of how occupational licenses have held you back or have held back a family member or friend, we would love to hear that. So visit our website and iwf.org/chasing-work. It is our brand new campaign that highlights how occupational licenses are holding Americans back, and the policies that can be implemented to release individuals to achieve their best and their highest.

So, thanks again Tanesha. And to our listeners, please continue to download our podcasts, like us, find us wherever podcasts can be found, and definitely wait and share this podcast. All right. Thanks everybody.

Tanesha:

Thank you.

Patrice:

Thank you.