Background
Earlier this year, Idaho became the first state to protect women’s and girl’s sports by passing the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act, a law that mandates athletes compete in sports consistent with their biological sex. The law has garnered a lot of controversy because in effect, it bans transgender athletes – for example, a biological boy who identifies as a girl – from competing in girl’s sports.
Predictably, the ACLU and another group challenged the law, HB 500, in an attempt to force female athletes to compete against biological males who identify as female.
They contend that the Idaho law violates both the U.S. Constitution and Title IX, which bars sex discrimination in any educational program that receives federal funding.
Alliance Defending Freedom is representing two female athletes who have filed a motion in federal court to intervene in a lawsuit challenging the state’s Fairness in Women’s Sports Act.
Today, we’re joined by those two athletes, Madi Kenyon and Mary Kate Marshall, along with ADF attorney Christiana Holcomb.Independent Women’s Forum (IWF) believes all issues are women’s issues. IWF promotes policies that aren’t just well-intended, but actually enhance people’s freedoms, opportunities, and well-being. IWF doesn’t just talk about problems. We identify solutions and take them straight to the playmakers and policy creators. And, as a 501(c)3, IWF educates the public about the most important topics of the day.
Transcript
Kelsey:
Hey guys, my name is Kelsey Bolar with the Independent Women’s Forum. Today, I’m here to talk to you about fairness in girls and women’s sports. You might wonder why is this a conversation a policy organization needs to talk about? But the answer is because there is really a challenge that girls and women are facing in terms of biological boys identifying as girls competing with and against girls and women in their sports. Earlier this year, Idaho became the first state in the nation to take steps to protecting women’s and girls’ sports by passing the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act, a law that mandates athletes compete in sports consistent with their biological sex. The law has garnered a lot of controversy because in effect it bands transgender athletes, for example, a biological boy who identifies as a girl from competing in girls’ sports.
Predictably, the ACLU and another group challenge this law, HB 500, in an attempt to force female athletes to compete against biological males who identify as female. They contend that this Idaho law violates both the U.S. Constitution and Title IX, which bars discrimination in any educational program that receives federal funding. A great organization I’ve known for a long time, Alliance Defending Freedom, is representing two female athletes who have bravely stepped forward and filed a motion in federal court to intervene in this lawsuit, challenging the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act. We are joined by those two athletes today, Mandy Kenya and Mary Kate Marshall, along with Alliance Defending Freedom Attorney Christiana Holcomb. Thank you all for taking a few minutes to chat with our viewers about this important issue today. I want to start with you Madi and Mary Kay, and ask why you decided to step forward and be a face for this sensitive and pretty controversial issue.
Madi:
I decided to join this because I know that there’s obvious biological differences between males and females that make competition between the two unfair. Typically males will have more favorable characteristics that allow them to perform at higher levels of success in athletics than females. And so as long as the two participate in athletics against each other, it’s unfair and it’s depriving females of these opportunities of success that should be protected to them. I joined this lawsuit and got involved because I thought that the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act was a good way to protect female sports and give them a level playing field that they deserve and along with that, I hope other athletes out there that agree with my opinion and other girls know that they have the ability to speak up and to fight for something that they believe in and protect these opportunities that should be protected to us.
Mary:
Yeah. I decided to join because I knew this was going to be the best way that I can get my voice out there and I can fight for women. And I wanted to make sure that I protect the fair and equal playing field that I’ve got to use for the past couple of years and that future generations of women will be able to have the same benefits that I had.
Kelsey:
Awesome, and for our viewers who have never met you before, can we have Mandy, you wave, give us a quick wave so we know who’s who.
Madi:
It’s Madi.
Kelsey:
Madi.
Madi:
Yeah.
Kelsey:
Awesome. And then Christiana, can you give us an idea of the legal landscape, where you are in this lawsuit and how things look?
Christiana:
Sure. Well, as you mentioned, Idaho passed the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act earlier this year and the ACLU unfortunately immediately contested that. We just had a court hearing today, Wednesday, where the court considered our request, Alliance Defending Freedom’s request, to get involved in the case on behalf of Mary Kate and Madi. Our objective simply is to help ensure that the court hears female athlete voices. They’re the ones the law is intended to protect and it’s designed to ensure that girls like Madi and MK are able to line up at the starting line, knowing that their race is going to be fair, that their wins and their losses will be fairly earned and fairly gained. And that they won’t be facing biological males in their sport.
We’re hopeful. We don’t yet have an official ruling from the courts on whether or not we’ll be able to participate fully as parties in the litigation, but we’re optimistic that ultimately we’ll be able to be a voice for female athletes across the state of Idaho.
Kelsey:
I think a lot of people watching this probably think this is maybe an issue in a couple of schools across the country, but it’s never going to affect me or my family or my children, but Madi and Mary Kate, have either of you thus far in your athletic careers, been forced to compete against or play with biological boys in your sports?
Mary:
Yeah, we actually both have this past year competed against biological male. I competed against this transgender athlete twice and both times I lost and it was really hard for me to lose against a biological male. And I know it was really hard for me to see my teammates who trained super hard every day to lose against that athlete too.
Madi:
I competed against a biological male, I think five times there at cross country and indoor track. And it’s just very discouraging and very frustrating because when you’re at the collegiate level, you’re training as hard as you can. You’re putting everything out there and skipping other opportunities to run and train. And you know that the biological male is doing the same thing, but due to the biological differences between the male body and the female body, they triumph over us in athletics. And so when we get beat, it not only bumps us back, but it bumps the other girls back and it’s that unfair advantage that they have. And you see girls getting bumped off the podium and it’s super discouraging and it’s extremely unfair.
Kelsey:
I think a lot of people could identify with your frustrations and being forced to compete against biological males. But critics might say, “Well, it’s also a really difficult to be one of those transgender athletes.” What is your response for those transgender athletes who might say, “I’m just trying to be a regular kid and play a sport”?
Mary:
Of course, life always is going to have its difficulties. I know that all athletes struggle with something, but when it comes to competition, this is about biological and competing against biological females and we want a fair playing field.
Madi:
I think MK said that great, this is about our biological differences in how we perform and that’s going to be the major part of how well we succeed in athletics, so this is about our biological factors and sports. It’s not about our identity.
Kelsey:
And Christiana. What was the need for this bill? Why did lawmakers even have to pass it in the first place?
Christiana:
Well, unfortunately athletic associations and states across the country are passing athletic policies that allow biological males to simply identify as female and to compete in and then dominate women’s sports. For example, in the state of Connecticut, two biological male athletes have now won 15 women’s state championship titles, 15. Those championship titles used to be held by nine different girls across the state. Just imagine how utterly deflating and defeating it is for female athletes to again, step up to the line, knowing that someone with a physiological advantage is competing and they are likely to win and to take away that championship title from you and what we’re seeing in Connecticut is being replicated in other states and other sports as well.
Idaho really was being proactive in trying to ensure that athletes like Mary Kate and Madi don’t have to face this again. And we really appreciate that lawmakers were willing to address that issue and to pass the Fairness in Women’s Sports Act to ensure that the level playing field Title IX was intended to give young women is preserved.
Kelsey:
Madi and Mary Kate, what has been the response to you stepping forward and again, becoming a face for this issue? Have you received a lot of support from your fellow athletes and families in your community, or have you received a lot of pushback?
Madi:
I was actually really shocked. We have received almost little to no pushback and the amount of support we’ve received is overwhelming. It’s been so great for families and friends, and we know people are supporting us. And even if they don’t agree with our views, they still have been supporting us. And it’s been extremely helpful.
Mary:
Yeah. I have all of my family and my friends and people I went to high school with and their parents have thanked me so much for protecting their daughters and for doing this and standing up and being brave.
Kelsey:
I have to ask whether that surprised either of you, because if you look at the way this issue is covered online, you would think you would face a lot of bullying and backlash for doing what you’re doing and standing up for women’s sports.
Mary:
Yeah. I mean, I was very surprised that I haven’t received any backlash at all. No one’s tried to reach out or anything to… I was very surprised. I thought how it is these days that I thought I would receive a lot of backlash for my opinion, but I think people realize what we’re doing is the right thing.
Madi:
Yeah. I’d have to agree with her. I think a lot of people see the facts and see that we just want a fair playing field and that this is about sports and that fair competition and nothing else. And a lot of them are agreeing with us.
Kelsey:
And Christiana. What are the next steps in the legal process? And are you hopeful this law will have an impact, not just in Idaho, but for other states across the country?
Christiana:
Well, the court during the hearing indicated that we should hear back on whether or not we officially get to participate in the lawsuit as parties by August the 10th. We’re expecting a pretty quick ruling on the early phases of the case. And then we’ll just kind of see what the court does with the other motions that it was considering and what next steps will look like. But I am optimistic that ultimately across the nation, we will be able to protect fairness for female athletes. Again, that’s what Title IX, nearly 50 years ago was enacted to protect. That’s the reason you have so many incredible female athletes and the numbers continue to rise. We just want to ensure that those opportunities continue to exist and proliferate so that we have women’s sports as a separate category, not simply men’s sports and co-ed sports.
Kelsey:
And Madi and Mary Kate, before I let you go, what do you want Americans to know about this effort you are undertaking and how can they support you?
Madi:
Just that this is about fairness in women’s sports and that we want to continue to have these opportunities and to continue to be able to compete on a fair level playing field.
Mary:
Yeah, we’re fighting for women and for future generations of women to make sure that they get fair competition.
Kelsey:
Amazing. Well, I know Alliance Defending Freedom is doing great work on your behalf, so we are greatly appreciative to them. I also want to let folks know that Independent Women’s Forum launched a petition to demand fair play. We’d encourage anybody interested in this issue to check that out and follow our work on that front. We know that we need more voices in this debate. It’s not an easy one to get involved in, but I think the two of you set such a good example on that front and I guess serve as a beacon of hope for the rest of us that, if you do stand up, then perhaps things won’t be as ugly as they look online. Thank you all for joining today. This was a great conversation and on iwf.org we will most certainly be posting updates about your case. We appreciate it.
Madi:
Yeah. Thank you so much for having us.
Mary:
Thank you.
Kelsey:
All right. Let’s see. Stop recording.