On this week’s episode, Brad Lips joins to discuss his new book Freedom Movement: Its Past, Present, and Future. This publication arises from his 20 years of experience working with organizations in the U.S. and roughly 100 other countries around the world. Brad provides analysis of the freedom movement’s past, shares stats on where it is presently, and gives insight on what will determine its future. 

Brad Lips is the chief executive officer of Atlas Network, which increases opportunity and prosperity by strengthening a global network of independent civil society organizations that promote individual freedom and remove barriers to human flourishing. In the decade since he became CEO, the budget of Atlas Network has more than doubled and the scope of its programs has extended worldwide. He has spoken on five continents on solutions to poverty, and his work has been published in National Review Online, Forbes, Fox News, American Spectator,  RealClearPolitics, among others. 

Transcript

Beverly:

And welcome to She Thinks, a podcast where you’re allowed to think for yourself. I’m your host, Beverly Hallberg, and on today’s episode, Brad Lips joins us to discuss his new book, Freedom Movement: Its Past, Present, and Future. This new publication originates from his perspective of 20 years working with organizations in the US and with roughly 100 countries around the world. He’s going to provide some analysis on the freedom movement’s past, share some stats on where we are today, and give insight on what will determine the future.

But before we bring him on, a little about Brad. Brad Lips is the chief executive officer of Atlas Network, which increases opportunity and prosperity by strengthening a global network of independent civil society organizations that promote individual freedom and remove barriers to human flourishing. In the decade since he became CEO, the budget of Atlas Network has more than doubled, and the scope of its programs have extended worldwide. He has spoken on five continents on solutions to poverty, and his work has been published in National Review Online, Forbes, Fox News, American Spectator, Real Clear Politics, among others. Brad, it’s a pleasure to have you on She Thinks today.

Brad:

I’m glad to join you.

Beverly:

So, I think we should just start with a basic question, which is how do you define the freedom movement? So those who haven’t heard this actual term or phrase before, what are you referring to?

Brad:

Yeah, I thought that we should really just own this phrase that I always feel a little awkward talking about in front of those who aren’t part of this community, but this is the way that a lot of us talk about our careers, those of us who work in the think tank movement or in academia, with a real purposeful mission to explore ideas of sort of classical liberalism and free markets and individual liberty. A lot of us are devoted to a theological project and I think it’s important for us to sort of reveal what our intentions are and talk about how we make this project more effective in winning over converts, especially during a time in human history when I think that the forces that have kind of arrayed against the ideals of individual liberty are growing stronger. So I think that we need to really be purposeful in how we take this cause to a new level.

Beverly:

And I thought we would maybe have you start by talking about the global freedom movement. So I think often, people who are in the States think about freedom in this country and what it means to us, but how have you worked, how has Atlas Network worked with the freedom movement globally? What does that look like?

Brad:

Yes, I have sort of a unique vantage point as the head of Atlas Network, an organization that I joined more than 20 years ago. And Beverly, it’s kind of funny because I kind of came to the organization very focused on the way that US political battles were going and public policy issues were being discussed, but I found that it was really incredible to be seeing the perspectives of people from abroad who were dealing with the unintended consequences of big government in a way that was just even more pernicious than what we see here in the US.

And sometimes those perspectives are really helpful for sort of resetting conversations. Because often in the US, when people talk about policy issues, you kind of size up what tribe is this perspective coming from? And I think that one of the great benefits of working with so many people from around the world is that you start to look afresh at things that are just common sense, and people don’t start to wonder whether you’re on team red or blue, and that’s a very healthy thing.

So, Atlas Network works with organizations that are sort of similar to the Cato Institute or Heritage Foundation or IWS, but are located all around the world. And about a third of our partners are in the US, but that leaves another 300 or so scattered among really a hundred other countries and they’re doing the same critical work that the think tank movement in the US is all about, trying to change public policy in a direction where there’s more opportunity for individuals to use their own skills and not find themselves hindered by overregulation, over-taxation and other infringements that government imposes.

Beverly:

And I know that in my work and when I’ve partnered with Atlas Network, I love the work that you all do. It’s always been so inspiring to work with groups that do come from places where they have very little freedom, but yet they are champions and they’re fighting for the causes they care about for the people in their country. And I always find it interesting that there are so many things that unite us within the freedom movement. So in your work, what would you say are the pillars that the freedom movement is built on? What are those fundamentals that no matter where you live and the different circumstances and the different barriers that you face, that these are the different pillars that we stand on if we care about freedom in our own countries?

Brad:

Yeah. I mean, some of those pillars are individual liberty, a respect for property rights, a belief in free markets and free exchange, and equality under the rule of law. And I think that really, a common denominator, which is increasingly part of the language we use, is that it’s all about human dignity. I think that, too often, think tanks get sort of lost in macroeconomic statistics and so on, but a lot of the policy battles that we care most deeply about are really about just respecting the individuality of human beings. And many of the people who are the most marginalized in our societies are victimized by government. And sometimes, they’re kind of put in the front of parades for bigger government because it’s an assumption that they can’t help themselves and they need favors from some redistributionist scheme led by a benevolent politician.

Invariably, those schemes don’t work. Those schemes get politicized and they really deny the agency of fellow humans. And the good news that we get to preach is that people all over the world are working to better their condition. And if we can just do the modest work of removing the barriers in their path, that can be transformative. I think that that’s sort of the common denominator between working for educational choice, working to restore property rights in developing countries that don’t always have them, working to protect the ability to work in the legal formal economy so that you’re not regularly victimized by corrupt police that are going to shake you down. The common denominator here is the respect for the individual.

Beverly:

And Atlas Network works with numerous organizations worldwide, as we mentioned. What would be maybe a powerful example that you can share of how, when these pillars are respected, that these think tanks can actually make a lot of change for people? What has stood out to you as some of the most, maybe a couple of powerful examples that you’ve seen in your 20 years in working in the freedom movement globally?

Brad:

Sure. Some of the examples that come to mind, I was just mentioning this idea of being able to work without being victimized by the police. And today, we have a very different conversation about public safety and the role of police here in the US, but in countries like India, where a lot of the population works as street vendors, there’s this sort of common understanding that the size of your business is about the size of your wingspan of your arms because you need to be able to grab the corners of your blanket and take your inventory away. Because if you don’t have a legal right to do work there, the police can confiscate your goods, fine you, and sort of shake you down, and all you’re doing is pursuing your livelihood.

Well, there’s an organization in New Delhi, India that has, for several years, taken on this cause of getting legal protection and creating a an avenue for the street vendor community to assert their rights and to be protected from that kind of abuse that comes from police that just see these individuals, who are really among the poorest of the poor, as victims that they can shake down with impunity. And that’s the kind of thing that we love to see our partners stand up against and it’s been remarkable to see some of the success that this organization in India has had to give normal people, trying to create a livelihood, a chance to succeed.

Beverly:

And I want to go back to the history of the think tank. You’ve used that term before. I am going to have you define it. What is think tank to you? What does that mean? Because you’re talking about actual actions that have taken place. So this isn’t just a bunch of smart people thinking about things, it’s people actually trying to put it into action. So tell me what a think tank is and also where did the think tank movement start? How long has this think tank freedom movement been around?

Brad:

Yeah, so I mean, think tanks are traditionally understood as those organizations that are trying to move the public policy conversation in a direction that will solve problems for people. And for those of us who believe in these classical liberal ideals of individual liberty and free enterprise and limited government, this movement, in some ways, traces its origins back to a conversation that the man that eventually would found Atlas Network, that he had right after World War II.

He was a Brit. He fought in the Royal Air Force and saw his brother, who was also a pilot, shot down and killed in front of him. And then he came upon the book, The Road to Serfdom, which was published there in 1944 or ’45 by Friedrich Hayek. And it was a really influential book. And when this Royal Air Force pilot, Antony Fisher, happened upon it, he realized that there was really a cogent diagnosis of the problems that were then ailing Britain. The war had been won, but Britain was turning in the direction of a labor government, in the direction of socialism. It was talking about planning the economic recovery the way they planned the war. And this way of thinking was really counter to the tradition of freedom and individualism that Antony had thought he’d been fighting for.

So, he thought about reaching out to that professor who was then in London, and he said, “Professor Hayek, I wanted to go into politics. You’ve diagnosed the problem. I’m going to set it right by having a successful political career.” And it was a Hayek’s comment that sort of changed Antony Fisher’s life because he said, “No, you’re not. If you go into politics, you’re either going to be incredibly unsuccessful because you’re out of step with the times, or you’re going to be successful and you’ll get yourself elected, but you’re not going to have an impact because politicians need to conform to what is considered politically possible at any given time. And we need a bigger project, a project that can change what is considered politically possible.”

And Fisher kind of stewed on that advice for 10 years or so while he became pretty successful in business, and then decided that he would launched what became the first free market think tank in the UK, an organization called the Institute of Economic Affairs, that explicitly decided it wasn’t trying to come up with politically relevant proposals that wanted to change what was considered politically relevant, but it was the organization that first started talking about privatizing what had been nationalized.

And when Margaret Thatcher came to power in the late ’70s, she said it was this organization that created the intellectual foundations for the reforms that she was then able to implement as socialism had taken the UK in a dangerous direction and she was able to lead the country to the incredible rebound that it had in the 1980s by implementing a lot of ideas that had come from that particular think tank.

So the movement of think tanks has evolved a great deal, which is part of what I wanted to discuss in this book, but the foundations, I think, are still really important for us to pay attention to, and that’s this idea that you need to be nonpartisan, willing to talk to all parties, that you’re not governed by what can be necessarily achieved in the very short term, but you’re standing up for principles that kind of stretch what’s considered politically saleable at any particular time, and that there’s, at the end of the day, this real commitment to principals that are going to remain the same through the organization’s history, that you’re not beholden to any particular party or corporate interest, that you’re legitimately and authentically devoted to ideas.

Beverly:

And you mentioned that term socialism. So we in the United States have heard that term more and more. There seems to be more popularity towards it. Now, people have questioned whether or not people understand the true definition of socialism, but do you think that, in the United States specifically, that think tanks, the freedom movement, have an uphill battle ahead when it comes to the popularity of socialism today?

Brad:

Yeah. I mean, it’s an interesting question, Beverly. I do think that a lot of the popularity behind socialism is due to a really shallow understanding of what people hope that means, and I think they hope that it means sharing and getting along, but if you look at the experiences that various countries have had with socialism through the years, you know that that’s not the whole story and that those stories invariably end in bankruptcy and often with authoritarianism and violence.

So, it’s going to be very interesting. And I think that it is a great challenge to all of us who work in this field and who care about the principles of liberty to think about how do we build a more vibrant movement that can counter some of the things that are attractive about socialism to young people? Part of my hope is that what we’re seeing today is a really interesting sort of reshuffling of political alliances. And I think that, on the left, you do see sort of a bifurcation of sort of the more traditional maybe Clintonian types, and then the hard left, I think that the Antifa folks are most symbolic of, and that the cancel culture on campus is symbolic of, and I don’t think that those two communities really sit together very well, except that maybe they don’t like the guy in the oval office.

So, I’m really hopeful that we can project that we are a movement that’s really about common sense and about traditional liberal values, like free speech, and that’s not necessarily where some of the hard left folks are now lining up. So Friedrich Hayek back in that book, The Road to Serfdom, dedicated it to socialists of all parties. And he didn’t mean that ironically. He was willing to talk to anyone of goodwill and that he thought he had a message that was important, in part because he believed that they were of goodwill, and really one of the best for society and they we’re just mistaken about where their favorite solutions were going to lead.

So, I again think that it’s really incumbent upon us to walk the walk and show that our movement is really for the equality of all people. And hopefully we can make that case as the other extremes reveal their ugly sides, as we’re increasingly seeing from day to day.

Beverly:

And by the way, people can get the PDF version of Freedom Movement: Its Past, Present, and Future. So if people are interested in looking at this, do go to AtlasNetwork.org. You can download the PDF version there. But I’m curious, from the lessons that you talk about in the book and just your experience and also the history behind it, what would you say are some specific things that people can do or that think tanks can do in the United States if we’re concerned about socialism and we want to promote the freedom movement? So if it’s not about political parties, what are the steps that people can take?

Brad:

Well, I guess that what I would recommend is thinking real hard about what policy issues are most relevant to the opportunities that are denied to too many people. I think that one of the issues that has been, for a long time, a part of our freedom movement, but has never been more salient, is the school choice movement, especially in the wake of COVID-19 and what we’re now seeing with a lot of schools refusing to open and really failing in providing good virtual educations. You’re seeing that those with means are finding other alternatives. Those who cannot are seeing this education gap widen because they simply lack other options.

So, things like school choice, I think, are absolutely pivotal at this time. And for whatever reason, I think that we have done a poor job at different times at really showing that we are standing with people from low income communities of all backgrounds and I think that it’s a time to get involved in what your local think tanks are doing to broaden those opportunities.

One of the epiphanies that I’ve had over the last several months, Beverly, is that I’ve always believed that mantra that Ronald Reagan used to voice, and I know that John F. Kennedy used it in a speech, this idea that a rising tide lifts all boats. And I truly believe that yes, economic growth is an important the goal for all societies and that it does create opportunity, especially for those at the lowest rungs in the socioeconomic ladder, but I think that if that’s our entire answer to the question of what are you going to do for the poor, you’re kind of tone deaf to the real needs and you’re also kind of presenting an answer that doesn’t respect the agency of those in low income communities that are showing a lot of initiative, but are finding themselves blocked.

So I love that a lot of our think tank partners here in the US have taken on occupational licensing, which creates huge barriers to people having simple jobs, interior design and hair braiding, and whatnot, where the licensing regime is really just a measure to keep people out of those professions and to inflate the wages to those that have already been licensed. It’s a great tool to stay on the side of people of modest means who are pursuing the American dream, but have found big government in the way. So the more that we can roll up our sleeves and work on projects like that that show that our movement is for everyone, I think that’s part of the secret for restoring a real faith of the American dream.

Beverly:

And so then, that leads to my final question, is for those out there who are concerned about the direction of America and feel that freedom is eroding in this country, what do you say to them? Do you have hope for the future based on what you’ve seen in the past or based on your perception of where things are today? What insight do you have that can help people think about the future and where the United States is heading?

Brad:

Yeah, I guess that the good thing is that we’ve had dark days in the past, and indeed, the modern freedom movement was born in one of those dark days after World War II when the intellectual consensus was certainly in favor of socialism and there were a lot of challenges to the international order. We survived that and saw the big victories with the fall of the Berlin Wall.

I think that part of what we have to keep in mind is that big breakthroughs don’t happen on any timetable we can predict, and that part of the goal needs to be lots of incremental wins that sort of set the stage for bigger breakthroughs and create some momentum and that show that our philosophy is one that is hopeful and inclusive and should be joined by people of good faith, especially as they see that some of the extreme ideologies around them are, in fact, not working for those sort of universal goals.

So, I’m very hopeful that while we’re in a difficult moment, that the long-term trajectory of our freedom movement has never been stronger, and these headwinds that we’re now facing, actually are going to present some real opportunities for positive change.

Beverly:

So, in the midst of an election polarized seasoned, people can get a book of hope. They can go to AtlasNetwork.org. It’s called Freedom Movement: Its Past, Present, and Future. Brad Lips, thank you so much for coming on and giving us a little bit of hope today. We appreciate it.

Brad:

Yeah. Thanks for having me.

Beverly:

And thank you for joining us. If you like what you’re hearing on She Thinks, then you won’t want to miss out on the latest news from Independent Women’s Forum. Sign up for mobile insight alerts and email updates by going to iwf.org. Last, if you enjoyed this episode of She Thinks do leave us a review on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. It does help. And we’d love it if you shared this episode and let your friends know where they can find more She Thinks conversations. From all of us here at Independent Women’s Forum, thanks for listening.