Just in time for Thanksgiving, Bespoke Parenting Hour host Julie Gunlock and IWF policy director Hadley Heath discuss TURKEY and all the other nagging cooking questions you might have before the big holiday. Julie and Hadley also talk about Hadley’s oped “Not Your Mother’s Feminism” and what new Supreme Court Justice Amy Coney Barrett means to conservative women in America.
Transcript
Julie:
Hey everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock, your host for the ninth episode of the Bespoke Parenting Hour. For those new to the program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves, and most importantly, their kids. Today, we’re going to try something a little different. My good friend Hadley Heath, who is the policy director at IWF is on with me today. Hello, Hadley.
Hadley:
Hey Julie, how’s it going?
Julie:
But we are not going to be talking about policy Today. We’re going to do something a little different, kind of a nice break for us. So soon after the election, I think you and I have probably been … had our faces stuck to the computer and iPhones and TV screens, and watching the returns and watching everything that’s going on in the country and the theories running around about what does this mean and what does that mean? Today, we are going to actually be talking about food and cooking, and I’m going to be slinging a little cooking advice. Hadley’s got some questions, and we thought it would be a nice break from politics, but also we are very close to Thanksgiving.
Hadley and I were chatting on the phone one day, obviously talking about policy issues, and this came up. Just like, she’s had some cooking questions and she thought, wouldn’t it be fun if she sort of asked these questions? I think Kathleen has some pretty common questions that a lot of people wonder about. We’re going to just kind of chat about that. That was a great idea. Thanks Hadley for coming up with that.
Hadley:
You’re welcome. I’m so thankful for your mentorship in the kitchen realm. Just to give your listeners a little bit more background on me. I did not really grow up in a family where we sat down together at home and ate dinner, and I’ve been really inspired through the years, reading some of Julie’s writing and sort of listening to some of her … and following her on social media. She’s obviously a much a better cook than I am, but also just the importance of family mealtime and just making your home really a safe place for your kids to have this togetherness, and I think sitting down together for dinner is part of, we talk about establishing traditions for your family or bespoke parenting.
When I think about my family, my household, I really want dinner time to be a thing that we do together. My kids are just four and two, so we’re in this stage life where we’re just kind of starting our family traditions. But anyway, thank you, Julie, for being an inspiration to me and for being a mentor.
Julie:
You’re so right. You’re so sweet, but I honestly, I did grow up. It’s interesting how you’re so often influenced by how you grew up, because my mother was very much a sit down to dinner type. I really enjoyed that time. I enjoyed listening to my parents talk, listening to my dad talk about work, listening to what my mom was doing charity-wise, or sort of their goings on in the community, and that was when I talked to my parents about things that bothered me or things that were going on at school. So, I’ve always thought that was important. Then when I started writing about food, and specifically children and food, it was amazing to me how children who have some form of family time surrounding a meal, like if they sit down to dinner, at least I think it’s four times a week, their nutrition outcomes are much better.
The other things that matter, obviously going to bed early and limiting screen time, these are the three items. It’s really interesting if you study like child nutrition, that the three things that really affect a child’s sort of, if they’re overweight or if they have nutrition issues, the main factors are going to bed on a normal, reasonable time, limiting screen time, including television and games and sitting down to dinner. So, I’m a big pusher of this. I think it’s a great thing to do just in terms of family relationships, but I think there’s some really significant sort of health outcomes that are affected by this. I’m glad we’re talking about this, and as I’m sure you can probably gather for the listeners is that I love to answer food questions. I love it when one of my colleagues or a friend or a neighbor will email me a question I remember, a friend.
This is our old colleague, Hadley, I remember Sabrina texted me and said, okay, her babysitter had left salmon on the counter for like an hour, and she was worried if it was okay. I told her to risk it. I’m sure some public health official right now would have a heart attack if they heard, but I told her, and I get a lot of questions from that from other folks, so I like doing this. [crosstalk 00:05:32].
Hadley:
Julie, I feel like we treat you a little bit like the chopped show. At IWF we’re like, I just found four random items in my pantry. What can I make for dinner with these four random items?
Julie:
I have saltwater chafe, a filet of salmon and Mandarin oranges. What can I do? And I’m telling you, I might … okay, that’s probably pretty extreme, but I might be able to come. I did.
Hadley:
Yeah.
Julie:
I think sometimes dinner does feel like chopped, where you’re so busy and you haven’t gone to the grocery store or you haven’t really thought out your menu. I know there are really organized people that think out their weekly menus and have sort of rotation of things. I’m actually not like that, but I will say that I can kind of … I don’t cook a lot from recipes, so it’s easy for me to throw something together, but I don’t think it is for other people’s. They really need to be kind of organized they need to say, “Okay, I’m making this casserole on this night, I need these ingredients.” Or, “I’m making this on this night.” My advice always to people is, come up with a list of 10 things, have a really well stocked pantry, and we can talk about that too like, what is a well-stocked pantry?
Because if you have a well-stocked pantry, you can almost make anything fairly quickly. At least try to memorize a couple or have access to some recipes that are easy to do and that you can always pull things out of your pantry, so that helps, but we should probably get started here, but before I do, because I know some listeners might not know who you are, Hadley, and what you do for IWF, but I do want to take just a second to read your biography, and this really doesn’t have anything to do with food.
But I think Hadley is so impressive. I’ve known … Hadley, how long have we known each other 10 years or something?
Hadley:
Yeah, something like that,
Julie:
Hadley is just one of the most impressive people I know, and I’m so thrilled to work with her, and Hadley is actually the director of policy. So, she manages all of us and make sure that our priorities are sort of in line with IWS priorities. So, she’s got a big job and she has very little kids, so it’s very impressive that she does all she does. But Hadley, again, is the director of policy at IWF. She frequently comments on healthcare. That’s sort of her niche. But she also comments on entitlements and general economic policy. She appears frequently on radio and TV outlets across because she is on Fox all the time, on Stossel, Neil Cavuto, Your World With Neil Cavuto. And she’s published everywhere, Wall Street Journal, Forbes, Politico, Roll Call, RealClearPolicy, National Review, Huffington Post, and many others.
She has been recognized on many of these sort of impressive lists, 30 under 30 lists. She was named a rising star by the RNC and in 2017, she was the Tony Blankley Chair for public policy and American exceptionalism at the Steamboat Institute, which is in Steamboat Springs, Colorado, I think I have that right. And she lives in Denver, Colorado with her husband, daughter, son in a great community. Again, glad to have you on, and why don’t we just start off with your questions? We can just kind start from here.
Hadley:
All right. I wanted to start with one that’s not like … I don’t think on its face is really that stupid of a question because some of these are going to get straight up stupid. I’m kind of shameless about the fact that I’m a novice in the kitchen, and I feel like I should … I mentioned earlier, we didn’t eat dinner together a lot when I was a kid. I feel like I should like defend my parents for a second. They’re wonderful people, and they taught me a lot about life. My dad basically taught me how to buy stocks when I was in high school, so they gave me a lot of like practical preparation for life, but we didn’t spend a lot of our evenings together, mostly because we were so busy. I remember my coming up years being very busy. I had a lot of late night drama practice at the high school and stuff. So, I feel like I should offend them. They were wonderful parents, and I turned out fine. My nutrition has been great.
Julie:
Sorry. I’m sorry. I sort of went off on a tangent there because it is so important, but I think in some ways, it’s important to also realize, people are so busy. It’s funny, since I started writing this, and I’m not going to spend long here. I don’t want to get too much out of a tangent and get off your cooking questions, but my child is very big into baseball now. He has baseball practice four days a week, on the weekdays, and then he has games. It’s really become impossible for us to sit down all the time as a family. But I’m sure your parents were very active in your life, took interest in your life, took interest in your activities. That’s sort of the point.
In some ways, the family dinner thing is simply being involved in your children’s lives. I don’t want people to feel bad if their kids have all these activities and they’re not sitting down to dinner. I think, in general, the rule is be actively involved in your child’s life. Talk to them. I think sometimes meals for people, it’s a way to show a child that you care and that you’re … but making them a sandwich or making them a snack, or there’s a lot of ways you can do it. I’m glad you mentioned that. I’m sorry to go off, but I don’t want to make people feel bad on this podcast.
Hadley:
COVID has been a good chance for people to sort of reevaluate speed of their lifestyle and their sort of their family lifestyle. But my first question actually, I think, is very relevant for Thanksgiving dinners. This happens to me a lot, Julie, where I have two things that I need to cook basically at the same time, but they really probably shouldn’t cook at the same temperature. So, what do I do? Is there a rule where I go with the higher or the lower or an average temperature, or is it change the time that it cooks? Or what do I do?
Julie:
Well, it’s a tough question, and I think it is really a matter of balance. Let’s say you have … and you’re right, this does affect things at Thanksgiving. I actually have one oven. I have one oven. It’s a matter of …
Hadley:
Like most people, right?
Julie:
Right, exactly. Right. Exactly. But what you need to do is you need to prioritize dishes. Obviously if it’s, let’s talk about Thanksgiving, the turkey is critical, and it’s critical because it can kill you if you don’t cook it right. Other things like squash casserole, yeah, you probably won’t die, and I’m kidding, but you could get very sick if you don’t properly cook a turkey. I think the most important thing is that you realize that you recognize the thing that really … and also obviously turkey or you can say ham, but really turkey is kind of … hams are usually are already fully cooked. They’re smoked and they’re fully cooked. It’s not as scary as if you under cook a ham. With turkey, you certainly need to make that your priority.
What a lot of people don’t realize is turkeys will stay warm for a very, very long time on the counter, particularly if you tempt it with foil. Actually, you should let it rest. The reason, obviously is if you cut into a hot bird, or any hot piece of meat, all the juices will run out, so what you want to do is let it rest, let the juices sort of redistribute into the piece of meat and it won’t when you cut into it, it won’t leak out, and that’s kind of key also in, especially in turkey, a turkey breast, it can be very dried out. What I usually do is you … let’s say the turkey needs … gosh, I can’t even remember what a turkey cooks at, but let’s say 350. By the way, I always default to 350. Let’s say the turkey cooks at 375 or 325. I don’t know what it is. I should Google that really quickly.
But let’s say you’re browning the Turkey. There is also a point where a turkey is close to being done. Maybe it’s a few temperatures off, or maybe the top needs to brown a little bit more, although that should actually happen kind of early in the process, but the point is, if you’re cooking a turkey at 375 and some of the casseroles you’re making cook at 350, at the end of cooking, you can certainly lower it, stick your casseroles on a lower shelf and let that bird finish out. Then you take it out and you can finish off those casseroles. I will say, when you stuff an oven like that, you should probably be careful about temperatures. It will reduce. I mean, there’s a lot of things in there, and that will reduce the temperature of the oven, sometimes what the oven will display, the heat and what the oven is, actually, isn’t always the same.
One thing that I do, for instance, dense casseroles, like a sweet potato casserole, if you take a butter knife and you stick it in the center of that casseroles, first of all, it should slide in like melted butter. It should just fairly easily slide in. If there’s any resistance, you know it’s cool in the center, and what you do is you put that knife in there and then you delicately, now don’t shove it in your face instantly, but just very … I always put it to my bottom lip and just tap it a little bit. If it’s painful or if it’s like really hot, then the inside of the casserole is cooked through. But if that knife doesn’t get it, get searingly hot, like really hot, you know that that casserole needs a little bit more time.
You have to sort of use tools that … because if you’re putting a gigantic turkey and two casseroles in an oven, and everything needs to cook, the turkey has to cook for several hours, but then the casseroles just for a little bit at the end, it might not, because you had the turkey at the beginning, and then you pull it out, that oven might be a little … because you’ve opened the door, you’ve let the heat out. I’m saying, is that, if your casserole needs to cook for a half hour, that’s fine, but you should test it by other means than just trusting the time. Should use the butter knife method, or any kind of steel implement like a spoon would work too. Those are kinds of tips that I would give people for juggling the dishes at Thanksgiving.
Hadley:
Okay. It sounds like there’s not really that easy rule of thumb that I was hoping for, but …
Julie:
Cooking is … yeah.
Hadley:
Like everything in the kitchen, I will get better at this with time and practice.
Julie:
You will. So much of cooking is just instincts and feeling. My mom, she cooks like me. There’s not a lot of recipes, and then when she does write a recipe down, she’ll have things like … adjust for seasonings. Now, I understand what that means, but that’s the kind of maddening statement for people who don’t cook much. They’re like, well, what does that mean? Is it supposed to be more salty? Is it supposed to be. Instinct really comes into … and not with baking. If you want complete measurements and absolute certainty …
Hadley:
Chemistry.
Julie:
Well, baking is better for you, but with cooking, there’s a lot of just winging it.
Hadley:
Okay. You brought baking up, and so my next question might relate to this. I’m not sure. We’re entering stupid question territory, but one constant source of confusion for me is butter. Do I do salted butter or unsalted butter, and when, and what’s the rule on that?
Julie:
There is a rule on that, okay?
Hadley:
Okay. Good.
Julie:
This is your kind of question, because there’s definitely a rule on this. When you are baking, you should always use unsalted butter, because a recipe will often call for salt separately, even chocolate chip cookies, even sweet things, you put butter, and I make a crust salt is called for in the crust. If you use salted butter, you’re upping that salt. In baking, always use unsalted. However, if you’re anything like me, I never have unsalted butter in my fridge. I always use salted butter, and I use a lot of stick butter, and so I always forget. It’s like buttermilk. I always want to make my mom’s banana bread, and it calls for buttermilk, and I never have buttermilk. I make my own. You just add a little vinegar to milk, and it makes buttermilk, but the point is, is buttermilk is a little thicker too.
It’s got a different consistency, so I’m always mad at myself for not having buttermilk, and I’m always mad at myself for not having unsalted butter, but it does not stop me from baking. You can still bake. With the salted butter, if the recipe then calls for salt, you might want to reduce it a little so that you’re not essentially over salting something. But don’t worry about the chemistry in the recipe. It’s not going to taste terrible. It might be saltier if you don’t reduce the salt that it calls for, the separate salt, but you can use salted butter, just like unsalted. That’s fine. But you should use unsalted. Keep it stocked in your fridge. It freezes well, keep a couple boxes in the freezer.
Hadley:
Okay. You’re ready for my next stupid question?
Julie:
I’m ready.
Hadley:
This is the one I’m worried about being embarrassed about. That’s why I’ve buried it three questions into the podcast. This is another mystery to me. Why are there different measuring cups for liquids and solids?
Julie:
Okay. I know this is weird, but liquids and solids act differently in a contained … Let me say this. I don’t ever use liquid measuring cups for solid things or for like flour, but I have used, because one is … It’s already dirty, I’ve already used it for the flour, and so then I’ll use it for the milk. Okay? Whereas I would never do that in reverse. I would never put dry things in a wet measuring cup. Just because it’s awkward. It would be awkward. They’re designed differently. I remember my mom telling me, like, there are different … for some reason, I can’t remember which one, and to be honest with you, I could be wrong, and so could my mom, but I just know that, with dry, you should use the dry measuring cup. But the difference is like so tiny that it doesn’t really matter. It’s makes sense that you wouldn’t use a liquid measuring cup for dry ingredients.
Hadley:
I will say it’s easier to pour liquids out of something that has a spout, right? And has a little-
Julie:
It does.
Hadley:
So, I get that.
Julie:
Yeah, and some dry ones do. Now, to be honest with you, I’ve never done the experiment. I’ve never done the experiment of taking a dry thing or taking a wet thing, and then measuring it from a dry measure into it to see the difference. But I will say this, when you put flour in a container, it fluffs up? When I take the flour out of the container, I use a dry measuring cup, but the first thing I do is dip it in and kind of … I take a big scoop and then I pour it out, and I take a big scoop. I kind of mix up the flour, so it’s not packed down, and then I take a scoop out, and then I level it off with a knife, and it is fluff. There’s air. I’ve integrated air into the flour before I use the scoop for the last time and level it off.
For that reason, it might be slightly different, because obviously a liquid, you can’t introduce air into a … It’s going to be packed in there. It’s going to be like a pact … you don’t take the flour out and bang it against the counter and then put more flour in. So, it may have something to do with that.
Hadley:
I just got to say, last Christmas, maybe I got a set of liquid measuring cups, and I am like in my 30s, and this is the first time in my life that I had liquid measuring cups, and I was like, oh, I’ve just been pouring milk in my cup measure, and it’s worked out fine so far.
Julie:
I should preface this by saying that these are things that I was told or I learned, but I’ve never confirmed them. If you Googled this right now, maybe it would be like, nope, there’s no difference. I’ve just always thought that there was. But again, I have used dry measures for liquid and nothing’s ever been destroyed.
Hadley:
Okay. All right. That’s good to know. Okay. My next question has to do with surfaces that I cook on, because I have different kinds of pots and pans, and I’ve got some that are nonstick, and then I’ve got one that is made from stainless steel that I really like, because I like the size of it, but it frustrates me because like, God forbid, I try to scramble eggs in this stainless steel thing, it just doesn’t work out. Then I have some cast iron skillets that, to be honest with you, and I’m saying this as a southerner, like I’m from North Carolina, I don’t really know how to use a cast iron skillet or what … when I’m making the choice of like, here’s something I’m going to cook, I’ve got all these pots and pans, which one do I pick for which thing, what’s the answer for that?
Julie:
Are your cast iron skillets, are they brand new or were they handed down?
Hadley:
No, that they were bought new.
Julie:
Bought new. Have you seasoned it? Have you gone through that …
Hadley:
Uh-huh (affirmative).
Julie:
Okay. You did. And how often do you use it?
Hadley:
Never, because I don’t know how.
Julie:
Well, part of the seasoning processes use, and the more you use it, the better it gets, and cast iron is what’s called the sort of naturally non-stick. The more you use it on. You probably know not to wash it, not to use soap on it. You wipe it, out and you can use water if you’ve got some real gross stuff on it, but you shouldn’t soak a cast iron pan and you shouldn’t use soap. This is all part of it. And you should also line it with oil when you’re not using it. I have one, I also have a Wok that needs to be cared for. My mom got in Korea when we lived there when we were little, and it’s a very nice Wok and I care for it, just like I do the cast iron. The more you use your cast iron, the more … like non-stick, it becomes easier to use.
That said, I would never dream of making eggs. I know people do. It’s not that non-stick, you know what I mean? Nine is a well-seasoned pan. It was handed down to me, so it’s very old pan. But I don’t really understand that. It’s great for steaks and it’s great for certain … I just use it for meat. People are really itchy … First of all, stainless steel, I’ve heard people say, “Oh, it seasons too.” No. I don’t know how anybody, and look, I’m a good cook. You can make an egg and a beautiful over-easy egg. I can make sunny side eggs. I think over easy or harder. I’ve never made eggs in anything, but a non-stock. People are nervous about nonstick, but they have to remember for it really to become toxic, you have to cook it like, I think the pan has to get over 600 degrees or over 559 degrees, something it’s near 600 degrees.
There’s simply no oven or stove in the marketplace that would get your pans that hot. You don’t really have to worry about non … and also, why would you find egg in a pan that hot, it just doesn’t make sense. Nonstick is perfectly fine. I think that delicate items like fish, my God, I once destroyed a piece of fish when I tried to cook it in a stainless steel pan. I’m still bitter about it because it was expensive. It’s pretty obvious like certain non-delicate meats are perfectly fine in stainless steel. Stainless steel is great if you’re going to saute something, take it out, then add in a liquid so that you can scrape the pan. You do want some sticking when you’re going to make a pan sauce, for instance, later on, when you add certain aromatics or you’re going to add vegetables. If you take a pork chop, for instance, and you sear it in a stainless steel pan, not a non-stick pan, because I’m about to explain why you want …
And you take it out, and there’s all those black bits and fat and other things that kind of look like the pans dirty. Well, when you add an onion to that, a little bit of salt, the onions will release their water, and it will loosen the brown bits, and that’s the base of the sauce. What you’re doing is you’re making the base of the sauce. I call them the full stick pans are full stick for a reason. You want them to be sticky. You want some of the meat and juices to end up in the pan. You want the Brown bits to stick to the bottom of the pan so that later when you add your aromatics and your liquid, those bits get scraped up. I think when you’re making eggs, when you’re making very delicate fishes, use a non-stick, sometimes delicate vegetables. Use a non-stick pan. Then when you’re doing things like meats or things where you really want that stickiness, really, the question is, do I want things to stick to it?
If the answer is yes, you’re not going to make a pan sauce out of eggs. That’s gross, even thinking about it. But anything that, for instance, that you make a gravy, and I sometime I’ll take chicken breasts off, I’ll saute them, flip them over, saute them again, then I put them on a plate. They’re not cooked. They’re not fully cooked, but then I’ll add in some white wine, I may add some creams, some Dijon mustard, and then I add the chicken back into … I’ve essentially made a sauce, or sometimes I’ll take a little broth, an orange marmalade, or apple jam or something like that, and there I’ve made a sauce. Then you add the chicken back into it and you saute it for … you’ll let it just simmer away for half an hour, then it’s cooked.
But again, the stickiness, the chicken sticking on the bottom of that pan, even if just a little bit is what is the start of the pan sauce? Sorry for that long answer.
Hadley:
No, it’s just making me hungry.
Julie:
I know.
Hadley:
… listening to you talk about these sauces. All right. My next question is kind of … I’ll ask, it’s really two questions. But it’s about stuff that you keep in your kitchen, and not food stuff, but like tools and appliances. I want to know, in Julia Gunlock’s kitchen, what is the thing in your kitchen that you use the most in terms of like tools or appliances, and also, what is the thing in my kitchen, or your kitchen, I should say, that maybe is something that I don’t even have yet, it’s something like kind of expensive or fancy, but it’s like worth splurging on?
Julie:
I’m going to combine these answers, because it’s the same answer.
Hadley:
Same thing.
Julie:
First of all, I am a non-gadget kitchen. I cannot stand gadgets.
Hadley:
Do you do an instant pot? Do you have an instant pop?
Julie:
I do have an instant pop.
Hadley:
That’s so trendy right now, that’s why I asked.
Julie:
Yes, yes, and I do have one, and I do use it. I’m talking more the thing like, oh, it’s a grapefruits separator, or these little gadgets where you put the onion in, and then you stomp down on this thing like 15 times and you have a chopped onion. I don’t believe in those gadgets. I do have certain appliances and countertop appliances like an instant pot. The most important thing that you should have in your kitchen is a good knife, the most important thing. I have an eight inch chef’s knife. I have two of them actually, and they are the workhorses of my kitchen. You should have a good cutting board preferably with a lip, and you should have several cutting boards. I have several sizes. I use the plastic ones.
I don’t know. There’s probably a better word for melanin or what … I don’t know what that material is. It’s like a plasticky material. I’m not super anal about it. I mean, there are people who have like labels on them. This is the meat cutting board and this is the vegetable. I’m not like that, but I do have several for several different jobs. But really, a solid chef’s knife is the most important thing. You can use the backside of it to crush things if you don’t necessarily need to chop it, like a garlic clove. You can pick the eyes out of potatoes with a chef’s knife. You can slice and dice and do all the things that you would do normally with a chef’s knife.
But it’s very, very important, and when I say, really … because I would say all you need in your kitchen is chef’s knife. You have to maintain it. There are knife sharpeners like Williams-Sonoma, and I think some other cooking stores can actually send your knives away and have them sharpened. Regular maintenance, people don’t realize, you actually do need to have your knives sharpened. You need to have them … The sharpener that comes with a knife set, that is not a true sharpener. That straightens the blade, because your blade can get a little bit bent and it’s a tiny … it’s microscopic level of dullness. It’s not like you actually bent the knife, you can’t see it. The straightener kind of straightens the edge out, but it’s not really sharpening it. You need to go to a professional, and be careful, go to a really good … you can have your knives ruined.
I think really the most important thing, now, as far as other things, I have an instant pot. I don’t use a slow cooker very much. I will never understand why someone thinks chicken breasts in a slow cooker for eight hours is a good idea. I do not understand this. Chicken breasts are not a tough cut of meat. Chicken breasts are a tender kind of meat. It would be like putting a filet mignon in a … I mean, there are certain things that just don’t go in slow cookers. Slow cooker to me is you put a …
Hadley:
Can you put it in a slow cooker?
Julie:
Oh yes, you can do things like that, any kind of ground meat. But what I’m saying is, if something only on the stove top, you can cook a chicken breast in 10, 15 minutes. I don’t understand putting those kinds of things in a slow cooker. Now, you can like ribs or a Boston butt, or a beef chuck. These are all tough cuts of meat. They need hours. The other night, my husband wanted pot roast. He’s very Midwestern guy, very meat and potatoes. He wanted a pot roast, and I made a very traditional pot roast. I had a very tough cup of meat. I think it was a bottom round roast, and that is just … I mean, you’ll chew … if you put that in a pan and just fried it up, you’d be chewing for hours. It was in my oven for three hours at a low temperature. That’s perfectly fine for eight hours in a Crock-Pot, because you’re just going to continue to break down the collagen and break down that meat, and that’s what you want. You want it to be soft.
Barbecue, same thing. You could put a pork roast in the slow cooker for eight hours, pour some barbecue sauce over it, and then you’d have some … I don’t want to get hatred from barbecue snobs, but I’m saying like, for a family meal, that’s what you could do, but Crock-Pots really are overused, in my opinion, and they’re not used properly, and the right things are not made in a Crock-Pot. My mom, I still make fun of her for this, and she’ll be mad, she wants made something where you put pasta. Oh, no, it was rice. She made a Crock-Pot risotto. I mean, it tasted like porridge. The rice completely disintegrated. You can crank out a lot of recipes, but you should tell yourself, okay, if I take a whole grain of rice and I put it in water and I boil it, it will only take 20 minutes. So, anything that only takes 20 minutes shouldn’t ever be put somewhere for eight hours.
Same thing with a chicken breast. Chicken thighs are great. They’re a tough meat. They need time to … and chicken thighs are the kind of thing where, when you put them in the Crock-Pot for eight hours, they don’t disintegrate, whereas a chicken breast really turns kind of pasty. I don’t use my crock pot very much. I love my pressure cooker, it’s fast, and it doesn’t mush things, it doesn’t turn them to mush, because really, it’s actually quick cooking. The other thing is I really believe in good pots and pans. Heavy bottomed pots and pans that cook evenly, that don’t have scorch areas. It’s going to set you back. I got mine for my wedding, and they’re still … I’ve been married almost 20 years and they’re still solid. They’re still great.
The non sticks, I have to replace, but I have a professional grade of pans that are full stick. They’re not nonstick. They’re the workhorses. So, good knives, good pots and pans, and if you cook at a level like I do, some solid Tupperware or containers for leftovers, because I always cook like I’m making enough for a football team.
Hadley:
Sounds great. I like the knives. I’ll add that to my Christmas list. If anyone from my family is listening and you want to know what to give me for Christmas. Also good for self-defense, I imagine.
Julie:
I will tell you, you don’t need … sometimes they sell these, and I’m sorry my answers are so long here, but you don’t need this 18 piece knife set with your $700. You need a solid chef’s knife. Eight inches is pretty typical. I have a smaller one. I have a four-inch, I have a six inch, and I have two eight inches, and you need a small paring knife. You need a bread knife, and really with a small paring knife, one eight inch chef’s knife and a good bread knife, that’s a great starter. The reason I say that is because a very good chef’s knife, it’s not $30. The latest one I bought was I think 190, and you don’t need one that expensive, but I cook so much that I do need one is very heavy and is comfortable for my hand.
They’re generally around a hundred dollars. So, if you buy the whole knife set, that can sometimes run as much as $500, but really focus on the knives that you’re going to use the most, and that again, is a small paring knife, a chef’s knife and a bread knife to begin with, and then you can build from there.
Hadley:
I’m about to go buy some memory foam mats for my kitchen floor. I get so tired of standing up. For our listeners, I am pregnant, and so the backaches are real, but standing over the stove, it can be fun, but it can also be … get tired. But I have a couple of questions that I think will be kind of quick ones to wrap us up, Julie. But one thing that I feel really strongly about, and this is, you’ll also sense my southern roots coming out is like food as ministry and food as fellowship. Whenever I know someone who’s had a new baby or who’s had a family member die, or who’s been in the hospital, or who’s faced some kind of hardship, I like to make them a meal, and I want to know, Julie, what’s your go-to for when you got to make somebody a meal?
Julie:
I always keep it extremely simple and extreme … I don’t want to say this, almost bland, because I have this funny story, and when I tell her … I’m not going to name her, but this was a friend of mine. She was actually going through chemo, and so people were dropping off, and she had some really … she was sick. I dropped off my normal, I’ll get to what I always bring over, and she was telling me that someone had dropped off chicken curry and the smell, she just was gagging. It was so hard for her. Now, this is a delicious chicken curry recipe, that on any normal day, but you’ve got to think about, even after pregnancy, I just wanted comfort food. Every time I delivered and came home, my mom was there and she would make something very simple for me.
I always tell people like, you may, you may make an amazing chicken Marbella. Don’t make that. It’s greasy and it’s chicken on the bone. Don’t try to impress people with you’re incredible …. don’t say, “I just perfected my bulgogi recipe. I’m going to make that for you.” So, I always keep it simple. I make things like turkey meatballs, which are … it’s a very simple, or Swedish meatballs, if you wanted to go beef and pork. These are very simple things, and I always bring like egg noodles, just boiled and buttered egg noodles. Then aside of, I love this, you take a whole carrot, whole long carrot, you peel them, clean them, put them on a cookie sheet, olive oil, salt, and pepper, and roast the heck out of them.
It’s so pretty keeping them whole like that because they get brown and they kind of shrivel up a little bit. Oh my gosh, and natural sugars come out of a carrot, so it’s very, very sweet. That simple butter noodles and some turkey meatballs with gravy and those roasted carrots is very comforting, or peas. If you know they like peas, something like that. Things with mashed potatoes. You could make a cottage pie, which is essentially a shepherd’s pie, but with beef instead of lamb. I always stick to things that I think people are going to like. If they’re a vegetarian and not a vegan, mac and cheese is always nice, but do something sweet, like put gold fish on the top, instead of bread crumbs, because they’ve just had a baby. Put some goldfish on the top of a mac and cheese.
If they’re vegan, there’s plenty of tofu recipe. I actually love tofu, and soups. Soups are also, like if they’re a vegan family, a lovely hardy vegetable stew is something that I think people really love. The other thing is always bring them something for breakfast too. I think it’s always nice just to pick up some muffins or maybe some sweet rolls or something, or if they have another kid, pick up some donut holes something to give them a break. That’s sort of my go-to, is keep it simple, keep it good, but on the blander side.
Hadley:
I love that. Maybe we can include a recipe or two when we post this podcast.
Julie:
Yeah, it’s a great idea.
Hadley:
But my last question for you, Julie, is a little bit of a joke, and insiders will appreciate this, but Julie, I want to know, because this food is so trendy, what’s the best way to prepare kale?
Thought you’d like that one.
Julie:
It really is the worst.
Hadley:
Julie’s not a kale fun, right?
Julie:
I am not a kale fan. Now, listen, I tried, I tried really hard to convince myself to love kale. I think there are some benefits. Kales are very good for you. Kale chips were all the rage. I had a few, but it’s such a pain in the butt to make them. But I do appreciate … now, there is one way that I do make kale or I do eat kale. It is a lovely, healthy pasta recipe. I’ll just quickly go through what I do, is you saute … you can saute pork-based Italian sausage, hot Italian sausage, or you can do a turkey sausage, and I tend to do more turkey sausage than … but in a hot turkey sausage, you saute that, you add a ton of kale into this. You saute your turkey sausage, turkey sausage doesn’t release a lot of oil, so you’ll have to add a little olive oil and then you add your kale it and you saute that and the sausage together.
So, you’ve already cooked the sausage and now you’re just kind of wilting down the kale. Then you add in, bear with me, I’m telling you, this is really good, some golden raisins. If you don’t have golden raisins, you can certainly use black raisins. You had about a half a cup and then some toasted pine nuts. Okay. Then you add a little bit of chicken broth and let that simmer away, and then just after, let it simmer just for about 20 minutes or so, you add whole wheat pasta, whole wheat penne, and let the penne … you under cook the penne just a little bit so that when you add it to the saute pan with the sausage and kale and raisins and pine nuts, the pasta will absorb the liquid a little bit more. You put it onto plates and you top it with some Parmesan cheese. Now, there you go, Hadley, you didn’t stop. I was able to give you a recipe for kale. That is the one used for kale. It’s delicious.
Hadley:
I love that. I’m going to make that.
Julie:
You can also use broccoli rabe, you can use mustard greens, but I do think it’s best with kale.
Hadley:
Well, you know, I’m a millennial, so between kale and avocado, that’s basically what I suggest on.
Julie:
Such a diet. A whole diet.
Hadley:
Well, thank you so much, Julie, for answering all my questions. I feel very educated.
Julie:
Well, I have one last question for you. What will you be doing for, listen to me, Halloween? Oh my God. I’m still eating Halloween candy. For Thanksgiving this year, are you going to be a family, and are you in charge of making the turkey or the ham?
Hadley:
I am. I am getting turkey. I’ve made a turkey in the last few years. I think this answer won’t resonate with everybody, but it’ll resonate with a subset of people. My husband works in healthcare, and so he’s going to be working the full week of Thanksgiving, and so we don’t go anywhere. I like to be with him. So, when he comes home from work, we’ll have our Thanksgiving dinner, and that’s really special to me because I try to support him in his work and helping people. If you’re hospitalized on Thanksgiving, you certainly want to have your doctor there with you. This also means that we get Christmas off. That’s a trade I’m willing to make. But yeah, Thanksgiving has become a lesser holiday for me with my husband working so frequently, but it’s still really important to me to get my family together for dinner as frequently as I can.
Julie:
Oh, good. Well, listen, Hadley, I will be looking forward to more reports about your pregnancy, and good luck with everything, and I’m so happy for you guys. I’ll be sending you some more quick and easy recipes for the expanding family.
Hadley:
Thank you. Sounds good, Julie.
Julie:
All right. Thanks for joining us, Hadley.
Hadley:
Bye.
Julie:
Thanks, everyone for being here for another episode of The Bespoke Parenting Hour. If you enjoyed this episode or like the podcast in general, please leave a rating or review on iTunes. This helps ensure that the podcast reaches as many listeners as possible. If you haven’t subscribed to The Bespoke Parenting Hour on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts, please do so, so you won’t miss an episode. Don’t forget to share this episode and let your friends know that they can get Bespoke episodes on their favorite podcast app. From all of us here at the Independent Women’s Forum, thanks for listening.