On this week’s Bespoke Parenting Hour, host Julie Gunlock speaks to Sylvia Bennett-Stone, director of Voices of Black Mothers United, whose 19-year-old daughter Krystal Joy was killed 17 years ago when she was caught in the gun crossfire. Sylvia shares her opinion on how communities and the police can work together to reduce street violence, on police reform, and on the well-meaning but dangerous “defund the police” movement.

Transcript

Julie:

Hey everyone, I’m Julie Gunlock your host for the 13th episode of The Bespoke Parenting Hour. For those new to the program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves, and most importantly their kids. So it is February, I think we’re in the second week here, I’ve lost track, and it is Black History Month.

So, I wanted to focus today’s podcast on an issue that’s important to the black community, gun violence, police reform, and the more recent calls for defunding the police which sounds a little crazy to me so we’ll jump into that issue. After the death of George Floyd, many community activists and many politicians in fact in several larger cities called for the complete defunding of police. I understood at the time of the George Floyd death why people would call for greater scrutiny on the police and how they treat suspects, looking at arrest and detention practices, and even the need to have serious conversations about police brutality like what was seen on the George Floyd video.

But there was a lot missing from the conversations. For instance, you heard almost nothing about police unions and their role in getting bad cops off the hook or that these unions would often pressure police departments to keep bad actors on the payroll. That is a serious problem that has really gone under-reported. And if we don’t focus on the role of police unions, nothing’s going to improve. I also thought what was missing was any details on what defunding the police would actually look like in practice and the impacts such policies would have on certain demographics like the people who are actually living in high-crime areas. The disinterest in how these communities would deal with that was really grating and I thought how are we abandoning the members of these neighborhoods who without police will be at the mercy of criminals.

These conversations really have been missing in the mainstream media. There have been a few exceptions and I’m going to mention these folks because I really, if you’re interested in this issue and really the under-reported data on police shootings, on police brutality, on police reforms, I think you should really read Jason Riley in The Wall Street Journal who’s done fantastic work on this topic and also Harvard economist Roland Fryer and writer Coleman Hughes. They have written and talked about how defunding the police would be a disaster for people in the black community. Roland Fryer actually talked about how it would cost thousands of black lives.

Another exception to the media disinterest in these issues is Patrice Onwuka who is a fellow, actually, she’s a policy analyst and runs a program at the Independent Women’s Forum. Just today she posted a really moving blog post on this issue and I want to read just a small excerpt but I encourage you to visit IWF.org and look at her recent blog. It’s called Its Black Moms Who Might Solve Spiking Murder Rates. Patrice talks about how organizations like Black Lives Matter, BLM, and I’m talking Black Lives Matter, capital B, capital L, capital M the organization and that’s what Patrice was referring to. She says, “They ignore that most of the black lives lost last year to murders were not at the hands of police but other blacks.” She says, “The statistics of rising violent crime in America should be alarming. From 2019 to 2020, murders jumped by nearly 95% in Milwaukee, 57% in Atlanta, 55 in Boston, 50% in Chicago, and 40% in New York City, 30% in Los Angeles. It has been 50 years since we have seen murder rates spike so high in one year.”

And she writes that the overall spikes in murders occurred in at least three waves of violence early in the pandemic, during the summer, during the George Floyd protest, and then again in the fall. Patrice then mentions the Manhattan Institute scholar Rafael Mangual who has reported that black and Hispanics have constituted at least 95% of shooting victims every year for more than a decade. Black children also suffer the highest firearm homicide rates of all races according to the American Academy of Pediatrics. Patrice also mentions that some of these victims were as young as one year old, a one-year-old toddler who was sitting at a barbecue, a 15-month-old strapped to his car seat in his father’s car, and a nine-year-old standing outside of his home. Black and Hispanic people are not the leading homicide victims in absolute numbers but they are disproportionately victims, Patrice writes, and notably, the perpetrators share their skin color. This is an inconvenient truth that BLM organizations ignore.

And that was a part of Patrice’s blog which I think is very powerful in that it says there is nothing wrong with focusing on police brutality and on the George Floyd death but there is a major issue in this country of black on black and black on brown crime that no one is focusing on. How we can go through a news cycle where 300 people were killed in Chicago in one weekend and nobody’s talking about it is true, it should strike everyone as being pretty odd. That is the type of crime that we’re not talking about.

So here to talk more about this really important issue is Sylvia Bennett-Stone. Sylvia has been a true leader pushing back on the defund the police trend and has even started a mom’s organization called Voices of Black Mothers United to help victims of street and gang violence get their voices heard. Sylvia has a good reason to care about this issue. Seventeen years ago Sylvia’s 19-year-old daughter Krystal Joy and Krystal’s best friend Terrin Greer were getting gas at a gas station and got caught in the crossfire of a gunfight between a group of young men. A bullet from a rifle went through Krystal’s body and into Terrin’s heart. Both young girls died. Sylvia, thank you so much for coming on my podcast.

Sylvia:

Thank you for having me.

Julie:

Well, I feel like I have so much to talk to you about. This should be a series. This is number one of five podcasts but we’re going to get through this. But before we delve into the really complicated policy discussion of defunding the police, I really want to hear a little bit more about Krystal. She had just finished high school and she was about to, as they say, launch into adulthood. Tell me a little bit about her and what were her interests.

Sylvia:

Oh my God. Krystal was the young lady who was known for the million-dollar smile. Everyone would say when she walked into the room she would just light up a room. I know being a mom I’m a little biased here but she, to me and as I look back on it, she was an angel here on earth.

Julie:

Well, I will tell you-

Sylvia:

Everyone knew that she never got angry. She was always helping, both girls were always helping someone else.

Julie:

Well, I will tell you, Sylvia, in researching you as a guest I saw many, many pictures of Krystal Joy and you are absolutely right. She was a stunning girl with, beautiful, beautiful smile so I’m glad we are going to be talking about her and talking about an issue in honor of her really, this organization that’s been launched and this group of moms who are really doing good in the world. And again, that is in her name so I’m glad we’re here to talk about that today.

It’s funny, I have to say that I was researching this issue, I was reading a lot of them, obviously the articles that you’ve written and also about the organization. And I have to say that I was a little nervous to talk about this issue because I don’t have a lot of experience with this issue and I think the issue that obviously we’re going to be talking about is the defund the police push that came about after the death of George Floyd. This is an incredibly popular trend that’s going on in this country. And so for me, I worried because I thought I don’t really face gun violence in my neighborhoods. I’m raising kids in a very, very safe neighborhood. I don’t worry about the potential of them getting hurt if they’re playing out in the front yard or if they’re walking to a friend’s house.

But then it occurred to me, Sylvia, that that’s the people who are pushing the defund the police efforts, most of them are exactly like me living in areas of cities that don’t experience the violence. And I thought, “You know what? I’m perfectly okay to talk about this issue since the people pushing this really also don’t experience this.”

Sylvia:

And the thing of it is, Julie, my son said it to me so well. He put it in such a good way. Those that are pushing, as you were just saying, pushing defunding the police don’t live in those neighborhoods. However, defunding the police means taking funds away, you’re weakening the force, you’re taking jobs to where there would be fewer police officers on a force to respond to calls. So what happens if and when someone from that other neighborhood calls the police and the police are nonresponsive? What happens if when the violence escalates to such a point where they go into these other neighborhoods and they fire those bullets through those windows and they’re not able to call the police?

Julie:

Yeah. It’s really interesting to me how this whole issue has evolved and the silence of who you would think are advocates. Women who are battered by their husbands rely on the police as we say, and in neighborhoods where crime is a common problem they rely on the police. And I think there has been a good effort by some people, some scholars to sort of highlight … Jason Riley comes to mind in the Wall Street Journal who has written about how this is really going to hurt the black families, this is who we’re supposed to be helping. The defund the police people say, “Well, we want to help black and brown people who have been brutalized by the police.”

But in fact, a police presence in some of these neighborhoods that are primarily black who deal with gang and street violence, taking away a police presence would really harm the very people they’re … I don’t want to criticize. I don’t think everybody’s just wicked who’s against but I think it is so dangerous to pursue these policies that ultimately could harm these people. Before we get into more on that, I want to talk specifically though about Voices of Black Mothers United. This is an organization that you’ve created to pushback on this narrative. Tell me a little bit more about that organization.

Sylvia:

Mr. Woodson of the Woodson Center, Mr. Bob Woodson, I have been an affiliate of the Woodson Center for years whereas they supported local organizations and the work that they’ve been doing in the community. And as an affiliate of the Woodson Center, Mr. Woodson and I were having a conversation, he asked where have I been because after Krystal’s death I fell back a little bit in doing a lot of work. And I shared with him that I lost my daughter and he was like, “Why haven’t I heard about this?” I said, “Well, you know even with me being a community advocate people don’t want to hear about it. They want you to go away, they want you to shut up about it. For some reason, no one wants to have a conversation about the violence in the community that we live in.” Mr. Woodson said, “Well, no longer. No longer.” And I said, “It’s not just me here in Alabama but it’s across the board, every state. They’re telling these black mothers to go away, no one wants to hear about it anymore.”

Julie:

How many-

Sylvia:

So we just resolved in this corner no more. We are now speaking up and we’re uniting to speak up as one voice.

Julie:

Well, there’s strength in numbers. Tell me how many numbers there are, how many mothers are now part of this movement.

Sylvia:

We have over 2500 mothers and growing.

Julie:

Nice.

Sylvia:

Since we’ve launched, it’s grown hundreds. And it’s growing every day. Mothers are calling those who are doing work and have organizations in the communities where they live they’re calling. Yeah, we are growing. We are getting to the point of where we want to have every mother who’s lost a child to violence step up and know that their voice will be included in this. No longer do they have to be silent about the death of their child.

Julie:

Sylvia, that’s so powerful and I want to talk a little bit about where the media is focusing because unfortunately they are not focusing on cases like your daughters and they’re not focusing on the thousands … Well, you can go a weekend and the news will briefly mention that hundreds were killed in Chicago on the streets. It is shocking to me. You wrote a piece and I really encourage everyone to Google Sylvia’s New York Daily News article which is very powerful as well. She said in it that victims of police brutality, you said victims of police brutality matter greatly but then you said something really provocative especially in this day and age, you said that these deaths represent a fraction of the number of black people who are killed each week in our neighborhoods including a growing number of children who are caught in crossfire just like your daughter.

Julie:

Why don’t we hear about this more, Sylvia? Why don’t we hear about these victims of violence?

Sylvia:

For some reason, Julie, people don’t want to have this conversation. Now in my personal opinion, they don’t want to have this conversation because they don’t have any solutions. That’s my personal opinion. But Voices of Black Mothers United, we’re not just coming with just a voice just to be heard. We’re coming with solutions to address some of the violence in our community as well as solutions to bring the community together with law enforcement to make our community safer. Let me address the statement I made.

Now it’s a fact, Julie, it’s just a fact and that cannot be disputed. There is a large number of violence in the communities and murders versus what the police. Now understand, murder is murder. It doesn’t matter who does it. I do not condone, and I’m making myself very clear, I do not condone police killing anyone. My heart goes out to the George Floyd mother because you know what, she’s feeling the same thing that I’m feeling. And not just me but the thousands, thousands, not hundreds, thousands of other mothers are feeling the same hurt that she’s feeling. And we want to be heard just the same. Our children matter just the same.

So, where they want to address the agenda of police brutality and murder, we want to address our agenda as well as community murders.

Julie:

I want to touch on that a little bit further because you are very clear, you care about … That is why this organization Voices of Black Mothers United exists is to find solutions including, and I don’t want to step on you because I want you to talk about the solutions which you are very clear about. You spell out solutions and I want you to get to that but this is part of the problem too and I think you’ve clearly stated that … I want to talk a little bit about the media’s role in this because to me they not only don’t report that 300 people died in Chicago in one weekend, they tend to make it seem-

Well, they make it seem like what happened to George Floyd is happening every single day and that this is a common problem within the black community. And the data doesn’t back that up. And so I think you’ve got two problems here of not reporting a huge problem which is a black-on-black crime in certain areas of urban centers and then only reporting … I feel like in some ways I’m always feeling, I try to think of some of my friends who aren’t very political and to them, the reason they believe that what happened to George Floyd which is inarguably horrible is so common is that that’s what the media tells them yet they don’t have any idea what’s happening in Chicago …

Sylvia:

Exactly.

Julie:

… and other cities. So that to me, I feel like there are some good solutions but what is the solution to the media, their behavior in all this? They know that this stuff gets clicks, they know that these stories sell much more than this many people die in Chicago. What’s the solution to that?

Sylvia:

We have to keep pounding in one loud voice. The media is going to gravitate to who’s the loudest. They’re going to gravitate to what gets the rating and unfortunately, everyone is desensitized to the number of murders and homicides that go on in the communities. So once we make that change, once we bring about the police law enforcement together with the communities through solutions then their tone will change as well. I truly believe that. And we are getting traction now just because we’re saying we don’t support defunding the police. Now with that traction, we’re also are able to get our voice out. We’re also able to tell about our initiative. We just have to keep plugging at it, Julie. We won’t give up.

Julie:

Well, we will continue to pound that message as well and do as much as we can to help spread that message. I want you to talk though, and I think these are great, I want you to talk a little bit about the solutions. I’ve read some of your solutions and I think they are brilliant and I think they are the path forward but the thing that I love the most is they work with the police. They integrate the police into the solutions. Tell our listeners a little bit about what are some of the solutions you see going forward.

Sylvia:

The main one is bringing the police together with the community and they have a conversation. We have an initiative that’s coming out to be announced where it will bring the community base law enforcement together to the table. And it’s going to force them to have a conversation. Once that happens and those barriers are addressed and those defenses are taken down, then that conversation can come into solutions and activities where it’s going to make the community safer. It’s going to give the community a stake hold into making their own block, neighborhood, community safer, taking care of themselves whereas the police can now do their job as policing and being peace officers that they’ve sworn to be.

Julie:

Yeah. Some of the things that you’ve written about specifically are things like better training and de-escalation and conflict resolution. And you really can’t bat that away and say that won’t happen. That will happen and I think that better training, for instance, stories about young black men who might have mental health issues, schizophrenia, or something that has them acting out in terrifying ways but they might not actually want to hurt someone or they might be disabled in some way. There are stories like that where the police officers ultimately were not charged because they were, for instance, there’s the story of a young homeless man, he was something like 25, he’d gotten a full scholarship. He was brilliant. He had this insane IQ but he had mental health problems, he was not treating his mental health, he ended up homeless. And then he charged police officers with knives and he was shot and he died.

Now they weren’t charged but this is an example of a young black man being shot. He was actually armed with a knife but still, you have to get into the story. The police officers certainly didn’t want to shoot him and kill him but if they maybe were trained in understanding what someone having some sort of a breakdown or some sort of a mental break. So I love the training and de-escalation of conflict resolution, not that it’s going to solve everything but I think especially training new officers or young officers on that is really important.

You talk about better public safety measures but also I like also that your solutions aren’t just based on the police side. You also talk about within the community providing better mental health resources. Teen mentorship so important and also legal services. Talk a little bit about those things.

Sylvia:

Well, one of the things that I do within my organization is helping the communities get a valid driver’s license. So people think of, you and I think of a driver’s license as okay, that’s just very simple.

Julie:

Yeah. No big deal.

Sylvia:

It’s no big deal. However, when you’re in a certain community you end up getting a ticket, you don’t have the money to pay for that ticket, you are afraid of going to court because you don’t have the money to pay for the ticket. That ticket ends up becoming a warrant for your arrest because you didn’t go to court and then it escalates and escalates and escalates. So one of the things that my organization does is help navigate people through the process of getting their driver’s license and getting it valid with the hopes that they do not have to go to jail. Now-

Julie:

Okay. Can I just interrupt it for one second?

Sylvia:

Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah

Julie:

Okay. Every time my driver’s license comes up for renewal, my husband has to go with me because I always get rattled, I always get nervous, I end up forgetting something and I end up crying in a corner, and then I have to do the whole process again. So let me just say for those out there, I feel like getting a driver’s license and some of the normal things one has to do, filing taxes or things like that, really hard. It’s hard. I think about I have parents, I have a husband who can help me, I have resources that I can probably get the help but you’re right. People who are economically really struggling-

Sylvia:

They don’t have the money.

Julie:

They don’t have the money. It honestly makes me want to cry that your organization’s helping people in those basic ways because I find it hard, I can relate to that. And you’re right about the death spiral. It gets worse and worse and worse and worse.

Sylvia:

It gets worse. You have to go to work so you continue to drive.

Especially if you’re in a place where public transportation doesn’t exist, you continue to drive, you continue to get tickets and it just compiles.

Julie:

Yes, yes.

Sylvia:

To a point of where it’s out of their control, however, that’s when we come in with the help of Birmingham, I have to give him credit, the judge here, municipal court judge Andre Sparks. He saw the vision of having this program in place and brought me in to develop it, implement it. Now if we could just look at those little things like that whereas if the officers know that the young man is working on getting his driver’s license back and he’s working legally to do it, why continue to ticket him, right?

Julie:

Right.

Sylvia:

So, we’re looking at bringing the police and the community together on those little things. If we start with those little things, it will grow and grow and grow and it’ll be a win-win on both sides. Now going back to the mental health issue. I actually have an associate, she was a long-time friend, I’ve known her for years. We lost contact for a lot of years until her son was killed. Her son had a mental health issue, terrible. He went off his medication. When he would go off his medication, he would attack her. She called the police and the police actually shot him in her living room in front of her. Now that’s where training comes in with compassion.

Now we can write a training program all day but we cannot teach you compassion.

So the police chief need to understand who they’re hiring on that end.

Julie:

You know, Sylvia-

Sylvia:

Now could that happen differently? Yes. Case in point, Denzel Washington the actor. I just saw this on the news where he was doing a movie and he did a ride-along with the chief of police in Detroit and while he was doing that ride along there was an actual call, a domestic violence call where the husband had a 12 gauge shotgun on the wife. The police were actually able to deescalate that. So it can be done. Denzel Washington said he saw this with his own eyes.

Julie:

I tell you Denzel Washington is a treasure because he talks a lot-

Sylvia:

He’s amazing man.

Julie:

He is. He is amazing and not bad to look at, just have to add that in there. I have a little crush on him.

Sylvia:

I think we all do.

Julie:

But Denzel Washington has done so much also to highlight the role of families so often, black family life, and the role of parents. And I think so many times in these conversations we only talk about what can the government do and what should the government be doing, what should the police be doing, some sort of agency of the state be doing. He simply states that he always just says it starts at home. He’s very matter of fact about things.

Sylvia:

It starts at home.

Julie:

And I love that about him and he is a powerful voice I think for underserved communities just like you, Sylvia. So I like that you brought him up because he’s doing great work. He’s doing great work on that and that’s important about the de-escalation and, again, better training. But what I love so much about your organization is you’re working with, you’re not just working with one set of people in this, you’re not just working with the police, you’re also working with the community. And one of the reasons I think your organization is so important too is one thing that I’ve worried about and I wonder if you worry about this too is that this narrative is going to drive people away from joining the force, good people.

Sylvia:

It will. It will.

Julie:

How do you feel about it, what are your thoughts on that? Are we driving away good people that could actually make a difference here?

Sylvia:

We are because as it stands right now, you have good officers who are afraid of going into the community because of the perception. And that perception needs to change. Here again, that conversation needs to happen with the community and the police. And understand, Julie, the vast majority of the community do not want defunding of police.

Julie:

Yes, yes.

Sylvia:

They are just afraid of speaking out on that.

Julie:

That’s right.

Sylvia:

They do not. And any time I talk with people in the community they say, “Oh man, no, that’s absurd.” They just want changes within the police.

Julie:

Right.

Sylvia:

They don’t want the police not to be-

Julie:

Disappear.

Sylvia:

… to come into their community. Absolutely.

Julie:

It’s so funny that you say absurd.

Sylvia:

They want good police officers. And a majority of the police officers are good people. I have family members and of course, working with the court system I know a lot of police officers and they are good people. There are police officers who get out of their car, walk the community, say hello to Ms. Mary the elderly matriarch of the community. Those are good police officers who don’t need to be punished for the few of the bad.

Julie:

Yeah, yeah. You’re absolutely right. Sylvia, it’s interesting, I have to ask you because I sort of cover these policy issues as well and I’m just very, very curious. It’s a bit of a pivot but I’d like to ask what your thoughts are on gun rights in general. And again, this is a very … I want you to feel free to say whatever. It’s not to lead you in any way but I’m interested in your thoughts on that issue because there are groups out there, particularly moms groups out there, who truly believe that the way to work for safer communities and safer streets is to get guns even from legal ownership off the streets. I’d like your opinion on that method. How do you feel about the right to own a gun? If you think that the answer is to limit legal ownership of guns, I’m just curious because it’s sort of important.

Sylvia:

Okay. That’s fine. I’ve been asked that question a million times.

Julie:

Nothing surprises you.

Sylvia:

Yeah. From the perspective of being a mom whose child was killed by an AK-47, from the perspective of working within the court system and working with those that carry guns and from the mom’s perspective. Now Voices of Black Mothers United, we’re not an organization that is saying this is about guns. This is about violence with us and I just want to make sure I put that out there because there’s a number of ways of people killing other people, not just with guns. There’s a number of way of homicides that are happening. So we don’t want to be pinned down to this is about guns, all right. Now this opinion that I’m giving you is my personal opinion.

Everyone has the right to own their gun. I do not believe that we should take away gun rights. However, I do believe that there should be stricter gun laws. The mental illness should not be able to get guns.

They’re mentally ill. So there should be some stricter gun policies, but not taking away someone’s right to bear arms.

Julie:

Yeah. I think it’s really interesting, it really is interesting how these things overlap because you are always going to struggle with the idea of I mentioned women who might be abused by their partners. Oftentimes, being able to get a gun license, get trained on a gun, and know how to use, it has saved lives. They have saved their lives. There are cases of women defending themselves against criminals but it’s a difficult issue and I think for moms there’s an awful lot of moms out there who are really worried about these issues and who are genuinely worried and want to find good solutions. I don’t actually agree-

Sylvia:

Absolutely.

Julie:

I don’t actually agree-

Sylvia:

A 15-year-old should not be able to get a gun.

Julie:

Right, 100%. And people with mental disorders, 100%.

Sylvia:

They should not be able to get a gun.

Julie:

They should not have access to these things.

Sylvia:

Most of the people are carrying the guns in our communities are one, carrying illegal.

Julie:

Right.

Sylvia:

Two, would not be able to get a gun permit.

Three, don’t even know how to fire a gun. That’s why we have so many innocent people getting hurt. These random shootings because they don’t know what they’re shooting at.

Julie:

Right. It’s interesting-

Sylvia:

It’s not about the guns, it’s about changing the people within.

Julie:

It’s interesting within the gun industry I’ve noticed a lot of articles because since the pandemic there’s been a lot of gun sales and people are saying we really have to within the gun community there needs to be outreach. We need to make sure these people know how to use these things if they’re going to buy them. We’ve got to make sure they’re using them correctly, they understand about safety, about locking them up especially if you have children in the house.

Sylvia:

That’s correct.

Julie:

So I think there has to be a lot of work done also on that side of things on that side and the people who are activists on the side of gun rights and the Second Amendment also. And I think they are doing hard work on outreach but that’s a really important part. But again, I like what you said about in these communities where there’s street violence, many of these people aren’t actually going through the legal process to get a gun.

Sylvia:

No, they’re not. They’re not. So it’s a matter of changing within.

Julie:

Yes.

Sylvia:

Now that’s what I do love about the Moms Demand Action organization. They are trying to change policy. I do love that part about them. And those policies need to be changed from that level but all in the same it has to start within the home and the community. One of the activities that I would do is go to the school talk to the elementary and middle school students about gun safety.

Okay. What do you see or what do you say when you see a gun? Don’t pick up that gun out of curiosity and then it ends up shooting at someone and you hurt your friend.

If you see this gun, what do you do? How does it make you feel when you see a gun laying out on the table in your home? So one of the things that we did we asked the middle school to write a letter to their parents telling them how they feel about that gun and if you’re going to have it, lock it up.

Julie:

Right, right. And I think that message, I don’t you know what? Obviously, we wish everybody went through the legal process to get a gun but if a child writes that to their parents who perhaps have illegally obtained a gun and who leave it out, you would hope that that would impact that parent. I suspect if they got a gun illegally they’re probably not very responsible about locking it up which is too bad. But anyway in which to get a message to a parent to keep dangerous things away from children is certainly a good message.

I will say too that I think it’s important for instance to teach children about gun safety and to teach them though there can be good reasons to use, for instance, if you want to go hunting or there are shooting sports that people often enjoy and so I do think that there’s a way to find a happy medium between making kids terrified of, and they should be, they should run away and find an adult if they see a gun on the ground. But I think a well balanced-

Sylvia:

Most of the time they’re relating this to a video game.

Julie:

Right, right, exactly.

Sylvia:

And this is not a game. This is very real. Too often times where kids find their parent’s guns and playing with them with their friends, it discharged and someone ends up hurt or dead.

Julie:

Yes. And honestly, I’m all for prosecuting parents who do not properly store their guns. This is illegal. You have got to make sure that you are properly storing these items. So I think that I’m all for those kinds of common-sense laws and restrictions which I think most people that are gun owners and believe in the Second Amendment would agree with as well. I want to-

Sylvia:

Right. And one of the things that we did we teamed up with the police department to hand out gun locks in the community.

Julie:

Yeah, yeah. That’s great. It’s funny and you already brought it up but as I was thinking about questions to ask you, I was listening to another program that you were on. I think it was on FOX News and I’m an official fan, I’ve watched all your clips, but I will say you had brought this up earlier but I pulled this quote out where you said because it struck me like a ton of bricks when you were told to be quiet and you’re told to go away. And I can’t tell you how profound a statement that is because I haven’t had an issue with gun violence but I have had other issues with officials particularly my child’s education.

And I have a child who has special needs and so it is amazing to me how when I talk to some officials I am told to just be quiet and stop complaining. And I just have to tell you that your message is so, it resonates with all parents and what you’re doing is so important. And no matter what the issue to stand up for what you believe to do to keep, as you said, just pounding away, do what you have to do to get the message out is really powerful. So I appreciate that.

Sylvia:

Thank you. And here again, we need help. This is a huge undertaking and we need the support of people to come in and say, “Okay. We got your back,” because see on the other side, they get millions of dollars.

Julie:

Oh yes they do.

Sylvia:

Millions of dollars. And we’re grassroots, we’re just not going to stop it but we can use some support. We definitely can push this agenda forward to get it to where they actually hear us and we are able to implement these solutions in these communities.

Julie:

Well, I want to do what I can to promote Voices of Black Mothers United, promote your message, Sylvia, but before we let you go can you tell people where to find you if you’re on Twitter if you’re on any social media platforms and also the organization gives the web address out?

Sylvia:

Yes. To find us, you can go to WoodsonCenter.org or you can go to VoicesofBlackMothersUnited.com, there you can go to the Twitter account, the Facebook account, all of the above from those two vehicles right there.

Julie:

And for anyone listening, in the description, we will put all of those links in as well so that will be included in the description of this podcast which I think is important. And I really do hope that people consider a donation and consider promoting Voices of Black Mothers United. This is work that is really critical and as Sylvia said it is underfunded. It is underfunded, under noticed, under-reported by a media who would much rather stoke fears and I don’t mean to exaggerate but stoke distrust. And I think what you are doing is bringing communities together. It is so needed, Sylvia. I admire you so much and I thank you so much for coming on my show.

Sylvia:

Thank you so much, Julie, for having me and giving us the opportunity to be heard. Thank you, from the bottom of my heart. Every opportunity that we get to be heard and just spread the message and to move forward with this fight of not defunding the police, we are just so grateful.

Julie:

Well, Sylvia, I feel like I’m never going to hug anyone again but the first chance I get after this I hope you come to an IW event in person and I hope I get to hug you and thank you in person because it’s been a great, great conversation.

Sylvia:

Thank you so much and I’d love to speak with you any time. You made this very simple just to be able to share part of my heart. And yes, I am a hugger as well so it’s been really, really difficult not to hug people especially as a mom who just got the phone call that their child is dead.

Julie:

Oh, I know.

Sylvia:

It’s very difficult not to put your arms around them.

Julie:

I know. Oh Sylvia, I know. And listen, what you’re doing, the work that you’ve done is an incredible gift to your daughter and she lives still through your work. So thank you for sharing her with us and it’s really a testament to you to have the strength to turn her death into a movement that will prevent future deaths. So thanks again, Sylvia, for coming on. You’re great.

Sylvia:

Thank you. Thank you. And all the mothers are dedicating this to their children. We’re speaking for them. Thank you.

Julie:

Thanks, everyone for being here. For another episode of the Bespoke Parenting Hour, if you enjoyed this episode or liked the podcast in general, please leave a rating or review on iTunes. This helps ensure that the podcast reaches as many listeners as possible. If you haven’t subscribed to the Bespoke Parenting Hour on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcasts, please do so so you won’t miss an episode. Don’t forget to share this episode and let your friends know they can get Bespoke episodes on their favorite podcast app. From all of us here at the Independent Women’s Forum, thanks for listening.