Angela Sailor joins the podcast to help us take on the woke left by discussing why American values are unifying for ALL Americans regardless of background, gender, or race. We’ll discuss the principle of a free society and why efforts to downplay America’s greatness is harmful to the commendable goal of equality and opportunity for all.   

Angela Sailor serves as Vice President of the Feulner Institute at The Heritage Foundation. She is an executive with 20 plus years of experience delivering measurable achievements in both in-house and advisory roles working with government (White House, Congress, U.S. Department of State, U.S. Department of Education), corporate, nongovernmental organizations (NGOs), and non-profit organizations (NPOs). Most recently she served as Deputy to the President and Founder of The Gloucester Institute the Honorable Kay Coles James, President, as a public member of the Senior Foreign Service Selection Board for the United States Department of State, and adjunct professor for Georgetown University’s Continuing School of Education. 

Transcript

Beverly:

And welcome to She Thinks, a podcast where you’re allowed to think for yourself. I’m your host, Beverly Hallberg. And on today’s episode, we take on the woke left by discussing why American values are unified for all Americans regardless of background, gender, or race. We’ll get into the principles of a free society and why efforts to downplay America’s greatness is harmful to the commendable goal of equality and opportunity for all Americans. And we have a wonderful guest today to talk about just this.

Angela Sailor joins us. She serves as vice president of the Feulner Institute at The Heritage Foundation. She is an executive with 20 plus years of experience delivering measurable achievements in both in-house and advisory roles working with the government. This includes the White House, Congress, US Department of State, and the US Department of Education. She’s also served in corporate America as well as NGOs and nonprofit organizations. She serves as a public member on the senior foreign service select board for the United States Department of State and also an adjunct professor for Georgetown University’s Continuing School of Education. Angela, it a pleasure to have you on She Thinks today.

Angela:

Oh, Beverly, it’s a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having me.

Beverly:

And there is so much to delve into when it comes to the American dream when it comes to the American founding, and where we are today as far as how especially young people view that and whether or not minority communities think that the American dream is for them. I saw in a recent article on the Daily Signal that you wrote, you said that American values really are unifying, that no matter who we are, we can all appeal to the principle of equality under the law when somebody violates our civil rights. So why are you a huge proponent of American values? And why do you think that those values still relate to everyone?

Angela:

Oh, my goodness. When we get up each day and we look around the world, and we’re able to look at this unique place called America, with the freedoms and the liberties we have here, I just am so energized in the work that we do. A lot of young people that we come across are looking at the international stage and at life here domestically now. And it’s really interesting to get in conversations with them over this kind of, cancel culture, the social justice culture that we have in play. But once you really start to delve into conversations with them and really begin to talk about America the beautiful, and what that means for their journey, and living out their dream in America, the tone and tenor of that conversation changes drastically. And we’re even seeing different studies that are being done with Echelon Insights and Pew, where they really talk to gen Zs and millennials about the American dream.

And as they talk about the American dream, the word opportunity just really continues to rise to the top, that in America, they get to explore opportunities that they’re looking at, which really takes you back to the Declaration of Independence. It takes you back to the Constitution in terms of why that’s even possible. And so as I said, I get so fueled at trying to get on the other side of the portrayal that we see through the eyes of the media, and kind of more limiting viewpoints about what young people are thinking and saying and doing versus actually getting to talk to them about it.

We have an incredible program at The Heritage Foundation, which we call our First Principle Series. And under the Feulner Institute, which I run, we have our Center for American Studies, and Joe Loconte, Dr. Joe Loconte, is our director and deals with and engages with young people all day long over why over the development of Western civilization and what makes America so special.

Beverly:

And one of the things that I think has been paramount as we’ve seen the news coverage and the posture of higher education and even K12 education is this attempt to define everybody by their mistakes in the past. So we’ve seen statues being torn down, we’ve seen schools being renamed. When you educate especially young people or talk to young people about the mistakes and the sins of our past, how do you think we should view those individuals who, for example, were slave owners? How should we view that in today’s society when some are saying, “How can we lift anybody up who did own slaves?”

Angela:

That conversation is so important, Beverly. So let’s just for a moment talk about the narrative that comes out of the New York Times 1619 Project, which really tries to drive a very negative narrative about what the future holds based on what’s happened in the past. And when we’re talking to young people, African Americans, Hispanics, just across the board about that, one of the words that always comes up is forgiveness. And when we’re looking at and examining a person’s life juxtaposed to their contributions, we really can’t look across history and find the perfect human being. Right?

Beverly:

Right, right.

Angela:

We’re not perfect.

Beverly:

No.

Angela:

But we are blessed, and depending on how you look at blessings and where they come from, but we get to be tools and resources towards sowing good into society. Even though we make mistakes, even though at times our views about life and the world and our role in it will evolve, it doesn’t take away from those good things that we’re able to do along the journey of life. And so when we’re talking to young people about that and we begin to drill in, what we hear a lot from them is this. They get frustrated when, and especially black youth, they get frustrated when they feel like the narrative won’t acknowledge the human frailty and flaw there, and that someone’s trying to push a narrative that people were perfect.

And when we’re able to kind of separate that over, yeah, nobody’s perfect, but at the same time, you can’t take away the good thing that they did, that has continued to sow over and over and over, value and fruit into our society. That’s where we begin to really resonate in the acceptance and the celebration and the excitement. And so we find that it’s really important to separate that conversation, as hard as it can be at times that, that young person doesn’t come to the conclusion that now I just cancel you, and I cancel everything that you’ve ever done because there’s something there that I don’t like, when they begin to also reflect on themselves and contributions that they hope to make and that they have made, in reflection on mistakes that they make along the way.

Beverly:

And we’ve seen how society has tried to right the wrong. We see that something that is pretty prominent among some liberal circles right now, something known as critical race theory. And that seems to be one of the ways that groups of people want to make up for the mistakes that people have made in the past. White privilege has been a phrase that’s been used quite often. When you do talk to minority youth, does a critical race theory perspective or having that theory in schools, do they view that as a way to educate people and lead to a better society for them, to eliminate racism that may exist and does exist within individuals? Or is the forgiveness route really the best route for people who have been victims of racism and oppression?

Angela:

There, Beverly, I think we have to be careful not to paint with a really broad brush. And I think when we, in Washington, we get into these conversations that become A or B, versus kind of What’s that third option component of the discussion? And I think that the majority of people are in that kind of third option area. We’ve done a series of webinars on critical race theory and have published and really tried to do a deep dive on educating people about this. And you have some constituencies that are just outraged, absolutely, this is crazy, this doesn’t make any sense whatsoever. And then you’ve got some folks who are hearing rhetoric and vocabulary, and they’re not really sure what some of the terms mean. And they’re trying to understand and kind of wade through the water or the weeds on that to get a better sense of it.

And so, we have found in our effort to try to really educate people about this is to kind of walk them back on the history of: What is critical race theory? Right? And we slow down and do the conversation of helping people to understand that this theory is trying to shape American culture from individuals to institutions and that it seeks to solve concerns about racial inequality, but in fact, actually creates new ones. Right? And through its lens, institutions like law and education, and business are the main source of racial problems in terms of what this theory is purporting. And it’s driving an overthrow, if you will, as the only solution. So you’re in a conversation that’s so narrow and through such a narrow lens, and then at the same time, when you look at the impact of what this theory, which many experts have just said is nonsense, and it has the nerve to use the word critical with it. Right?

And oftentimes, we think of critical thinking, we think of critical thinking and that kind of thing, but critical race theory is just basically asking people to kind of be mindless about the approach. And so when we look at: Well, what does this mean? What does this mean for our speech? Right? So critical race theory is like, well, there can be no free speech. Any word or expression can be viewed as exertion of power. And that just kind of drives to today’s cancel culture of those who want to control speech and shape society and dictate how we relate to one another.

You brought up higher ed. I mean, we’re seeing that all across the country in terms of those limitations and even the limitations on academic freedom. When we look at K through 12 in our schools and our children there, you’ve got the activism is trying to replace academics. And educators are becoming agents for social change through curriculum and school discipline and testing and what we often call now is civics action. Right? And then okay, there’s also the workplace. And so, and in politics, and so it’s like this thing that calls itself critical race theory is running through and starting to become more rampant through the bloodstream of our society. And we frankly think that it’s really important to respond to this in a very assertive way that America doesn’t need this. This is not the solution to bringing people together and trying to live in a harmonious situation or environment, if you will. America is the land of the free with unlimited opportunity, and our founding ideals and institutions reflect the inherent equal rights of every individual to do good for themselves, their families and their communities, and the society as a whole.

Beverly:

And a term that you mentioned, which we’ve heard so much in the past year, is the term cancel culture. And I’ve wondered, as you speak so often to young people. Have we seen maybe the pendulum swinging in the other direction? Meaning when we see that people are judged for the worst tweet that they ever wrote years ago, or that photo that they posted when they’re young, do you find that young people since they often do have a track record of information on social media … I’m personally very thankful I did not grow up with social media. I would hate to see some of the things I thought and said then come back to haunt me now. I’m a very different person. Do you find that young people may find themselves realizing of all the stuff I’ve put online, I would never want that to cause me to be canceled? Do you think the pendulum is at all swinging in the other direction?

Angela:

I mean, we’re seeing some data and research there too, where people on the left and the right thing that the cancel culture piece has just gone too far. Let me share a personal experience with it. I have a son who attends a boarding school, and he’s actually the president of the student body. So COVID I think created another dynamic as kids were at home and not interfacing with one another. And what we saw in our own personal experience was the more that the kids could be hidden through the devices and not having to engage with each other face to face, their courage or their tenacity towards so-called canceling you were at a greater heightened place.

But in the instance of my son, once they were all back together on campus and having to look at each other and look in their eyes and deal with each other as humans, versus through a device, those masking devices being taken out of the way and out of the equation allowed them to deal with each other in a more humane way. And so as I look at this and as I’m talking to young folks across the country and in the work that we do, those devices and the social media, the social media vehicles, I think helped to escalate those things to another level, that kids really just don’t have the courage to do if it’s face to face. And so it really is getting back to driving relationships.

And I think when people have contact with each other, the genuineness of those relationships and our humanity are better able to connect as they should. But when we’ve got the devices as a way to kind of block our humanity, and we’re kind of alone in space, and then you’re getting a certain kind of feedback, you lose your perspective. And so I think … And the other thing we see with kids, things are kind of very trendy with them. Right?

Beverly:

Right.

Angela:

And they get tired of things very quickly, tired of being mad at somebody, or putting somebody in a box because now it’s kind of time to move onto something else that might be more advantageous for the bigger and greater good of that community.

Beverly:

Yeah. And before we continue the conversation, I did want to take a moment to highlight IWF’s Champion Women Profile Series, which focuses on women across the country and world that are accomplishing amazing things. The media too often ignores their stories, but we don’t. We celebrate them and bring their stories directly to you. Our current profile is Representative Yvette Herrell from New Mexico’s Second Congressional District. To check out her story, do go to iwf.org to see why she’s this week’s, champion woman.

And Angela, to continue the conversation, a word that you used earlier in the word unifying. And that leads me directly to the new administration, the Joe Biden administration. One of the first things that he did, he did it on January 20th, his first day as president, was to eliminate the 1776 Commission. Can you tell us a little bit about what the commission’s goal was and why you think this is not the direction that the Biden administration should’ve taken us, and what you see is the uphill battle in this area of race and America’s founding with this administration?

Angela:

Sure. Yeah. So the cancellation of the 1776 Commission I think took us all by surprise in terms of, wow, that was one of those places where I think people were pretty hopeful that as a nation, we’d be able to kind of pull our strength in a place of being neutral, and not letting that become political if you will. That commission was designed to be able to take a hard look at the curriculum that’s across the country, and to be able to make some recommendations into how important it is, and looking at opportunities to bring people together to talk about how to bolster the American story, and doing it rooted in the founding documents. Right?

So, the 1619 Project was really at the top of so many people’s minds, where you’ve got kind of the collision of journalism, they were calling it at one point. And then the New York Times called it more of a promotional marketing piece. In the very beginning, they were saying it was historically rooted. And we saw them backing off on that. We did our own research and surveys toward that end, and the good news is as we surveyed parents and teachers, overwhelmingly, we saw people responding that, yes, the founding of the nation is 1776. And the Declaration of Independence is a good document that we need to celebrate and lean on for strength.

Angela:

I think the danger comes in when you start politicizing the basic truths of where we all know there’s no black and white about those things. And you were asking about kind of: What does this mean from a race standpoint? The story of black America, and what I mean by black American, the story of blacks in this country is critically important to the narrative of America. And I mean, we can look across the spectrum at the Bill of Rights Institute, and the Ashbrook Center, and others, Bill McClay, his book, Land of Hope, where people are really, scholars are really trying to take a closer look at how to weave the story together. And you’ve got Bob Woodson with the 1776 Commission doing the same thing.

And so, I think when things get politicized, there becomes this whole tension of someone has to lose and someone has to win, versus: How do we all come out on the other side of this stronger and better for it? One of the things that we’ve been doing at The Heritage Foundation is leading a restoring civics working group. And as we look at the work that the 1776 Commission has started, and we think it’s very important that the report gets in the hands of as many people as possible, and we’re working towards efforts to help make that happen. On the day it was canceled, it came down off of the website, and you had organizations like ours that we’re posting it as well so that it could continue to be a document that people could access.

But one of the things we’re doing at Heritage and our work in the civic space is we are launching a wonderful effort to make sure that we are engaging parents in this process. We’ve got lots of organizations that have done an incredible job with educating teachers and trying to make sure that they’ve got a better understanding of why the founding documents and how to use the founding documents in a really good way, and looking at alternatives to curricula. But one of the things that we’re joining forces with different organizations across the country are again, as I said, trying to make sure that parents are getting trained on how to cultivate stronger relationships with teachers in the classroom, especially around the issues of civics and history, giving them training on how to kind of look at the materials to know and understand some of the buzzwords that walk us down some of these dead-end streets.

But one of the things that we think is critically important here is not to foster or encourage a combative relationship between the parent and the teacher, but rather a healthy relationship that becomes a partnership, where the families are having more involvement. And why do we think all that’s important at the end of the day? Well, we don’t want parents to try to voice their concerns, and then, now their child is going to be disadvantaged in the classroom because the teacher was made at this relationship that’s coming. But also because we firmly believe that policies across the country need to promote transparency, just period. And we’ve seen with COVID, parents really saying, “Yes, we need more transparency. Oh, my goodness, I didn’t know. I can see the computer now. I see things that are happening.”

But again, we think the healthy approach to this is one that cultivates stronger relationships between the families and the teachers towards getting it right, and that locally, those decisions have to be made about what getting it right means. But what we know it’s not is a combative relationship that creates an even broader divide that just has people looking for a winner and a loser.

Beverly:

Well, we so appreciate your work in this area. I know it’s a very tough area to wade into these days. And there are a lot of attacks against anyone who does want to lift up the founding of this country and talk about the American dream. So we appreciate the work you’re doing. Before we let you go, can you let people know where they can find some of this curriculum that you have mentioned? Is this on the Heritage website? Or where can they go for more information on this?

Angela:

Sure. We have what we call a curriculum resource site, so you can go to heritage.org/curricularesources. And that will give you so much information, information on school choice, charter schools, transparency. And it’ll also lead you to discussions that we’ve had on critical race theory and papers that we’ve written there. And it will also lead you to information about the 1619 Project, and an analysis of that curriculum from a political standpoint with their political essays, as well as the essays on capitalism. So it’s all at heritage.org. And Beverly, thank you so much for giving me the opportunity to have such a wonderful conversation with you today.

Beverly:

Angela Sailor with The Heritage Foundation, we thank you for joining us. And thank you for joining us. Before you go, Independent Women’s Forum does want you to know that we rely on the generosity of supporters like you. An investment in IWF fuels our efforts to enhance freedom, opportunity, and wellbeing for all Americans. Please consider making a small donation to IWF by visiting iwf.org/donate. That is iwf.org/donate. And last, if you enjoyed this episode of She thinks, do leave us a rating or review on iTunes. It does help. Also, we’d love it if you shared this episode and let your friends know where they can find more She Thinks episodes. From all of us here at Independent Women’s Forum, thanks for listening.