On this first ever Bespoke Pop Up, host Julie Gunlock speaks to IWF President Carrie Lukas about the CDC’s absurd and cruel masking requirements for kids (as young as 2!) attending summer camp and discuss why public health officials are proving to be so irrational on these issues, how mask theater has affected confidence in the vaccine, and why people, in general, aren’t hearing the good news about plummeting COVID infection and hospitalization rates. Tune in for this quick listen!
TRANSCRIPT
Julie Gunlock:
Hey, everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock. Welcome to a special popup version of the Bespoke Parenting Hour. These shorter popup shows will happen when an issue pops up in the news that’s worthy of conversation and commentary. Some of you might have seen the viral video of a Georgia mom pleading with her local public school board to remove the mask requirements for very young children. We have a clip of that to listen to now.
Georgia mother (clip):
This is not March 2020 anymore. We have three vaccines. Every adult in the state of Georgia that wants that vaccine is eligible to get it right now and every one of us knows that young children are not affected by this virus. They’re not. And that’s a blessing. But as the adults, what have we done with that blessing? We’ve shoved it to the side and we’ve said, “We don’t care. You’re still going to wear a mask on your face every day, five and six year-olds. You still can’t play together on the playground like normal children, seven and eight year-olds. We don’t care. We’re still going to force you to carry a burden that was never yours to carry.” Shame on us. My six year old looks at me every month before I come here and she says, “Are you going to tell them tonight? Tell them I don’t want to wear this anymore.”
And I say, “Baby, it’s not time to fight that battle yet. I tried to explain that there’s so many things. But it’s April 15th, 2021 and it’s time. Take these masks off of my child.”
Julie Gunlock:
That is some pretty emotional, heartbreaking stuff there. To talk to me about mask requirements in general for schools and now for summer camps is my good friend, mother of five and the president of the Independent Women’s Forum, Carrie Lukas. Hi, Carrie.
Carrie Lukas:
Hey, Julie. Thank you so much for having me on.
Julie Gunlock:
That clip is pretty emotional and I think given the opportunity, most parents who are frustrated with a variety of things having to do with schools opening, schools continuing to be closed and now this masking, which seems to not be ending … I think a lot of us would sound like that Georgia mom. And I’m really glad that she did it because I think she gave voice to a lot of people who are afraid to speak up, particularly in school districts where parents who complain aren’t exactly welcomed.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah. It’s really interesting. I think that at this moment there’s a lot of people who … even people who have had a lot of patience, even people who thought that masks were a good idea and were something that people should have been doing from the beginning of COVID … We’re now a year into COVID and have seen how this virus is much less virulent among kids. We have a lot of reasons-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
-to already be like, “Kids are not …” But also, at this point in America you have, what is it now? Half of grown ups now have-
Julie Gunlock:
The vaccine.
Carrie Lukas:
-the vaccine?
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah. Exactly. So basically, if you want to have … If you want to be vaccinated, you can have gotten vaccinated now.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
And obviously, there’s always exceptions; there’s some people who have something where they can’t take the vaccine. But we’re starting to get towards at least … inch towards that herd immunity.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
And it’s very frustrating when there’s this moment of the failure of public officials not to reconsider their guidance. At this point-
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Carrie Lukas:
And also, not to recognize the cost because I think it’s one thing for you and I to have to put on a stupid and dirty old mask before so we can walk into a restaurant and sit down, but for kids we’re talking about … My kid just got on the bus and they stuck on their little masks on their faces and now they’re going to be sitting there …
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
… with their faces covered for seven hours? I mean this is-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, so that-
Carrie Lukas:
It’s completely crazy.
Julie Gunlock:
Okay. Some of these listeners might not … They might homeschool their kids or they might send them to a private school or have a neighborhood pod. They might not know. They might not be paying attention. So let’s just go over … The CDC guidance currently is that schools should mask at all times. You mentioned seven hours. We’re talking kids in a mask for seven hours. We’re talking not being allowed to play on the playground because that’s another part of the guidance is the playground equipment is shut down. They don’t mingle during lunch. They have to sit six feet apart. I remember you sent me this sad, sad photo of your youngest having lunch and he was spaced six feet away from his little playmates.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
Just insane. But before … Let me just go about the CDC’s guidance now on summer camps. They say you must wear a mask at all times and when they … I’m talking about kids. The kids must wear masks at all times … and we’re talking kids as little as two years old … except when eating … This kills me … swimming … How nice of them? … or napping. I mean, it’s just insane. The mask requirement applies to vaccinated staff as well as all campers because you might have some older campers that have been vaccinated. Each camper should have more than one clean mask available every day. They want the camps to establish, when possible, cohorts of staff and campers who will stay together throughout the day.
So, you think, “Oh, okay. Well, then for those cohorts maybe they’re going to let them take their masks out.” Nope. The cohorts have to maintain six foot distancing while they’re eating and at other times the masks are off. Okay, so if they’re swimming they have to swim six feet apart. They have to run six feet apart. Campers should be outside as much as possible in the heat and humidity with a mask on. There is no mixing or interaction with the general public on trips out beyond the camp.
Even Dr. Fauci, who, let’s be honest, Captain Cautious, has said … This is as far as he would go but he was like, “Eh, it’s a bit strict. It’s a bit stringent.” You think? Talk about the understatement of the year. Let’s talk about the heat. I mean, we’re talking the heat of summer and these kids are being required to mask. This is insanity.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah, it’s funny because I feel like … Sometimes when you read these instructions and this guidance you’re like, “Have they ever met a kid before? Do they have any contact with children? And especially toddlers?” Can you imagine? I know, Julie, your oldest is a little older than even mine and my littlest is now six years old and he’s perfectly capable of keeping a mask on his face and whatever.
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Carrie Lukas:
But if you’re talking about putting a mask on a three year-old. These poor … A, what torture for that little kid. And they’re not capable of keeping a mask on for that long. And the funny thing is I feel like even at this point, I don’t know what we’re trying to do in terms of the benefits.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
Or what we conceive the benefits are. But certainly, there’s no thought. Maybe if there’s the smallest, smallest potential upside, they are ignoring … completely ignoring the tremendous downside.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
And the downsides … I think that’s what all of us as parents say. At some point, we have to take … Your kids are not bubble wrapped. As a parent, you’re constantly saying, “What risk should I take? Should I let my kid climb that tree? Should I let my kid go swimming in his neighbor’s where I’m not going to be there to watch him?” All these things. And a lot of times there’s real risk, especially with swimming. I feel like a lot of parents heading into the summer, everybody gets nervous and for good reason because drownings are a real issue. But then also, you want your kids to be out there and swimming and having fun. This is a constant part of parenting.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
And it’s so unbelievably ridiculous for the CDC and powers that be-
Julie Gunlock:
And also, it’s-
Carrie Lukas:
-to take that choice from us.
Julie Gunlock:
Don’t get me started on President Biden and Jill Biden walking out to the helicopter wearing their masks or leaving the Carter’s house, coming out to the mics in a mask. It is really important that certainly the Bidens but also these government agencies instill confidence. You’ve got these Draconian mask requirements when there’s really good news about COVID. As Senator Paul said … He said it’s theater. He said-
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
“This masking is sort of this COVID theater.” You have new COVID cases in steep decline. Mortality rates have plunged. Nearly half the country has received at least one dose of the vaccine. And for more than a month, most schools have been fully open and there have been no spikes and community outbreaks. This is a complete refusal to celebrate this good news and to continue with this pandemic theater. And they’re doing it with these kids who have shown … It’s clear that they are not good vectors for this disease.
I want to also say this. The public health community is getting some heat for this. You have the editor in chief of JAMA Pediatrics who said that these mask requirements on kids are unfairly Draconian and many other people in the medical community have spoken out about this. I hope this pushback helps, and especially I hope they start to ease these things up before it really heats up and these kids are going to have to be in camps. It’s sickening to think of kids-
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
-wearing a mask in this heat.
Carrie Lukas:
And here’s the thing. I think if there’s … It’s really such an abuse of the American people because I do think that … It’s funny. The messages are just so mixed at this point. Obviously, I know you and I, Julie, are somebody who believes that everybody should be out there getting their vaccines for your own good, for the good of the country.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
Go get your vaccines. But I also do respect the right of people to … If you don’t want to get the vaccine, that’s fine. I think it’s a mistake but-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
-that is your … We’re a free country and it’s not totally crazy, especially when you look at making the decisions on whether or not to vaccinate your kids. I understand that there’s going to be a lot of people who say, “I’d rather take the risk of COVID,” which for kids is obviously very low, so that’s not an insensible thing. But at this point, the only reason … You have this mixed message where they’re saying, “Everybody get a vaccine,” but then for your good deed of getting a vaccine and having obviously the-
Julie Gunlock:
Yes.
Carrie Lukas:
Everybody’s been very successful in having COVID go away. You get nothing in return. You can’t go back to your normal life.
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Carrie Lukas:
You’re not supposed to have a July 4th party. Your kids aren’t allowed to play with other kids. It’s really crazy. And it’ll be really interesting … I feel like one thing that’s going to be … I hope that there’s people out there getting ready to study this because we’re going to see … I would like to see what the impacts are five years down the road on the damage that has been the impact of different age groups of kids when they’ve been forced in their-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
-amount of masking they were required to do.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
Because you think about, especially for little kids, the idea that you … Little kids learn so much from reading people’s impressions.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes.
Carrie Lukas:
Learning how to talk. A big part of that is actually seeing people’s mouth’s move and being able to mimic different things. My goodness, what are we even doing with this totally cavalier, without thinking of how we’re impacting kids? You think about the potential for substance abuse among teens, the potential for obesity rates going as kids are forced … Who’s going to want to go outside and run with a mask on? Nobody. It’s completely crazy.
Julie Gunlock:
I don’t want to even go outside and run without a mask on.
Carrie Lukas:
People just aren’t going to do it.
Julie Gunlock:
I never want to run. But yeah.
Carrie Lukas:
Exactly.
Julie Gunlock:
You make a good point, Carrie, and I’ve seen it in my own kids. And my kids … My youngest is 10 and I’ve already seen it in him and he gets in the car, “I need the spray, mom.” I come out of a store and I immediately rip the mask off my mouth and sometimes I’ll look back as we’re driving out of the parking lot and my kid still has his mask on and I’m screaming, “Take your mask off!” They’ve gotten so used to it and it drives me nuts.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
He’s 10. I can only imagine the effect on very young kids. And also, you can tell my kids are nervous. “I need the spray, mom. Spray my hands.” I’m trying to remind them that this is not normal.
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
Look, I’m fine if they want a little bit of hand sanitizer on their hands but it shows you this level of caution, this obsession with cleanliness that I think is not good. Look, I think all of us … I watched that Georgia mom. I know you did. I know we were privately texting about it and you said, “This is really powerful stuff.” I think we all feel like her right now, especially going into-
Carrie Lukas:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
This has been going on for over a year and there is this contingency out there that really wants to keep it going. It’s exhausting, it’s grating but ultimately it’s very harmful and it’s harmful for kids. And that’s what has gotten people so emotional and so angry about this. Thanks for coming on and talking about this, Carrie. I really appreciate it.
Carrie Lukas:
Great, great. Thanks so much for having me, Julie.
Julie Gunlock:
This has been a popup of the Bespoke Parenting Hour. We’ll be doing more of these as issues pop up and we’ll have some great guests to talk about some issues that are critical to parents. Thanks for tuning in.