Stay-at-home mom Nicole Solas joins the podcast to share her story of asking her local school board in South Kingstown, Rhode Island, about what her daughter would learn in kindergarten only to be hit with a $75k bill for the information requested and to be sued by the NEA. It’s quite a story, and I’m glad she’s here to share it with us.

Tune in:


TRANSCRIPT

Beverly Hallberg:

And welcome to She Thinks, a podcast where you’re allowed to think for yourself. I’m your host, Beverly Hallberg. And on today’s episode, Nicole Solas, a stay-at-home mom joins us to share her story of asking her local school board in South Kensington, Rhode Island, what her daughter would be taught in kindergarten. The result was a $75,000 bill for the information requested and a teachers’ union suing her. It’s quite the story and I’m glad she’s here to share it with us. Nicole, thank you so much for joining She Thinks.

Nicole Solas:

Hi, great to be here.

Beverly Hallberg:

And so I just want to start at the beginning. We know that a lot of parents across the country have been concerned about what their children are being taught. We see more parents going to school board meetings and speaking up. And you also did that. You wanted to know what your daughter was going to be taught in kindergarten. First of all, what made you decide to look into what the curriculum would actually be?

Nicole Solas:

Well about a year ago, before I enrolled my daughter, my school had pledged allegiance to Black Lives Matter. They did all of this CRT language, where they were going to rid the district of systemic inequities, that the district was systemically racist. And so I knew they had done that but it wasn’t until I enrolled my daughter later, that I wanted to see if they followed through on all these promises. And the answer I got was that they did. I called the principal and asked if they would learn anything related to CRT like anti-racism and gender theory. She said that with gender theory, they don’t call the kids boys and girls. They refrain from using gender terminology in the classroom. They actually embed gender identity values into the classrooms in every grade at age-appropriate levels.

And with anti-racism or CRT. And we all know anti-racism is really just racism. And it’s the concept of CRT. She said that in kindergarten, they ask kids, “What could have been done differently on the first Thanksgiving?” And they do this to teach a certain line of thinking about history and they teach this certain line of thinking in every grade at an age-appropriate level. When I asked questions about this to get more details, like well, what else do you do with these concepts and this ideology? They didn’t want to answer my questions. They actually told me to submit public records request. My school has a Google link on its website, where you can ask for documents of public information. I did that and they knew that I had a lot of questions because first I tried to email them all my questions and the principal responded and said, “Well, due to the scope of all your questions, submit public records requests.”

I did and then my school board, once they received what they felt were too many public records requests, they threatened to sue me publicly. They put my name on a public agenda and it said they would discuss and/or take action against Nicole Solas for filing over 160 public records requests. This was a complete shock to me. I had never even been to a school board meeting before. This would be my first one and it would be all about me. And I just couldn’t believe they were really trying to destroy me publicly before I had even started participating in my community when I had enrolled my daughter in school. And I knew it was a public attack.

This wasn’t a good-faith move by my school district because they had been cooperating with me throughout all of my public records requests. They would email me back and say, “Oh, we got your request. Did you mean this or that?” It was very nice. And at one point a school committee member made a joke in an email, “Oh, your APRA request.” APRA stands for access to public records act. It wasn’t something that appeared to be a problem as I was continuously submitting my requests. At the meeting, oh, I’m sorry, go ahead.

Beverly Hallberg:

Oh, I was just going to say, so when you got this lawsuit, when you were sued, did they give you a warning? Were you aware of this? And what reasoning did they give to even be able to sue you for this?

Nicole Solas:

Well, so they were threatening to sue me. They didn’t give me a complaint yet. You may be thinking about the teacher union suing me, which came a little later. My school district ultimately decided not to sue me after they targeted me in this five-hour meeting. But then two months later, the teachers’ union, the NEA, the NEA branch in Rhode Island, did sue me. They had a constable come to my door, give me this complaint saying that they’re suing me to prevent the release of this public information that I had requested from my public records requests. And the gravamen of their complaint is that if public information is released, they believe that their teachers will be harassed.

Of course, no one wants anyone to be harassed, but if teachers are teaching CRT and gender theory and that’s going to be revealed, that’s a matter of public concern. And it’s not for the teachers’ union to interfere with my civil rights to request information about my daughter’s education, to try to block that from me, if it’s really harassing litigation. And I don’t believe that the teachers’ union really even believed that they had a good-faith basis or even a legally supported basis to do this. They’re definitely [inaudible 00:05:33]

Beverly Hallberg:

Exactly. Well, what’s surprising about it is even the term that you’re using, public records. These are public records. Why would anybody be sued to request public records and then sharing that with people who also want to know what the public records are? It just seems like a ridiculous lawsuit and that they have no angle on that.

Nicole Solas:

Yes, you’re right. And in fact, they also had filed a temporary restraining order against releasing these public records up until the hearing, which is on December 1st; and at this hearing for the temporary restraining order, they withdrew their request because they had no legally supported basis. The attorney even said, “Oh, I wasn’t on my A game when I filed this.” That’s humiliating to say that and waste everyone’s time in court. I’m lucky to have the Goldwater Institute representing me pro bono. I don’t have to crowdsource money for my legal defense but to do this to another parent who isn’t so lucky, who wasn’t brave enough to go into the national media, get attention and I was lucky enough to then get the attention of a public interest law firm like Goldwater to help me out. But this is something that nobody can tolerate because it sets a precedent that a teachers’ union with a lot of money can just harass and bully parents who are just trying to advocate for their kids. And we can’t live in a society like that.

In a world where we have oppressors and the oppressed, the teachers’ union is the ultimate oppressor. And here they are saying that they want to push critical race theory out to 14,000 school districts to teach people about the oppressed and the oppressors, when really they’re the ones who are the oppressors in that fantasy paradigm. I think parents need to really start opening their eyes to the way the system works against them.

Beverly Hallberg:

It’s such a hypocrisy when you lay it out like that. And I want to backtrack a little bit too. I jumped ahead to the lawsuit because I was like, how can there possibly be grounds for suing someone for requesting public records? But I want to go back to what you were saying earlier about the school board meeting itself. Tell me a little bit about you being the focus of the school board meeting. And did you have any idea what you were walking into that evening?

Nicole Solas:

I didn’t know what I was walking into. I couldn’t imagine what they would talk about when they’re discussing suing me. And at this point, I’m a nobody in my community. Nobody knew who I was. It was bizarre. And what it ended up being was a show trial. They had, I don’t know how many hours they put into organizing my public records requests, listing them out on Excel spreadsheets, organizing them in different lists. They were examining evidence against me as to why I’m this terrible, evil person for requesting information about critical race theory and gender theory. They had people speak against me, witnesses testifying against me saying that I’m racist. Someone said, “Your ancestors skinned my ancestors’ heads alive.” And I thought, who are you? And how do you know my ancestry? And what are you talking about? And it was a five-hour ordeal. I was there past midnight with them talking about me and my political motivations that they thought I had, my moral character. And it was an out-of-body experience to sit here and watch my government target me as a private citizen for engaging in perfectly legal behavior.

Beverly Hallberg:

And so were there other people in attendance at the school board meeting who were able to speak up for parents, speak up for you? Or was this something where it really was isolated to the school board, to you and those who they put on the stand to testify, quote unquote, testify against you?

Nicole Solas:

I had a tidal wave of support come out for me. There were some people holding signs saying, “Public information is public information.” They said, “Hey, I’m a parent. I’ve submitted a lot of public records requests to my school district. It’s public information, why are we vilifying this woman?” I think ultimately that public pressure in support of me was what influenced them to not sue me. I think they were beginning to see that it would be a very, very bad PR move to sue me. And speaking of PR, it came out later that they actually hired a PR firm to craft a defamatory statement about me implying that I’m racist and they read it on Fox News. This is a school board who used my tax dollars to pay a PR firm to try to destroy my life. Because we all know that when you call someone a racist, you’re basically calling them a witch. It’s a witch hunt. And my school board did that to me. I couldn’t believe it.

And that was really the moment where I thought, I can’t keep my daughter in this school district. They have attacked me so viciously. I can’t possibly let her be the next target. After that meeting, I thought everything would more or less died down and I was wrong because then I ended up getting sued by the teachers’ union.

Beverly Hallberg:

And let me ask you about this as well. I know that there was a 74 or almost $75,000 bill for even asking about the public records. Where did they get this bill from? How did they assess why it would cost $75,000? Can give us some information on that?

Nicole Solas:

Sure. In Rhode Island, the access to public records act allows public entities to charge $15 an hour to compile and retrieve public documents that you request. They can charge 15 cents for every hard copy. The fee still has to be reasonable so when I was submitting my requests, the reason why I submitted so many was because I was asking for little bits of information at a time, so I could afford it. Sometimes I would get an estimate for $50 and I thought, okay, maybe I can afford that. Other times I would get an estimate for $9,000. I even submitted a public records request saying, “How do you calculate these estimates?” And they wouldn’t tell me. They have their own way of determining how many hours it’s going to add up to.

The Goldwater Institute resubmitted a public records request on my behalf for lessons about critical race theory and gender theory. And it was a more detailed request that use targeted keywords because when you submit a request for something like, oh, give me materials about critical race theory, they will probably come back and say, “We don’t have that.” Because they don’t literally have a piece of paper labeled critical race theory. They’re going to use that technicality against you. But if you submit a public records request saying, “Give me public documents that talk about Black Lives Matter, anti-racism, systemic racism, Zen education,” you start using more specific words the more likely they’re going to come back with information. They came back with this new request for $74,000 and of course that’s unreasonable. No one should have to pay that much money for information, which you’ve already paid for because you’re a taxpayer paying for this institution to produce lessons and materials just to go to school. That’s where that estimate comes from and it’s very controversial as to whether this estimate is really even real because they won’t tell us how they came to that number.

Beverly Hallberg:

Yeah, I would love to see the line item on how they came up with, I see the number, the exact number of $74,310 is what it costs for those public records that you requested. And so when did all of this take place? And where are things today?

Nicole Solas:

I started submitting public records requests in April and May and the school board meeting targeting me was June 2nd. And then I think a couple months later was when I got the complaint from the National Education Association suing me. We recently had a hearing about that restraining order and now we have the next hearing about whether the union can interfere with my right to access information on December 1st.

Beverly Hallberg:

December 1st is a big day then. Any thoughts on, I know we hear your case and we think you have a strong case on this but what is the Goldwater Institute saying? They’re representing you, where are things on that?

Nicole Solas:

Right, they submitted an answer for summary judgment and they also are saying that this is strategic litigation against public participation. Rhode Island has a really strong anti-SLAPP law that says that you can’t sue someone just to interfere with their public participation. And of course, public records requests are participating in public matters. They have also requested punitive damages and compensatory damages to compensate me and my husband because, by the way, my husband is also being sued for the public records requests he requested, to really send a message to an organization like the teachers’ union that you can’t bully parents this way and just swagger around because you have a lot of money.

Beverly Hallberg:

This obviously has caused you a lot of time, a lot of grief. You’re talking about having these so-called character witnesses speak against you at the school board meeting, when those individuals don’t even know you personally. That does a lot of damage to a person that’s hard in so many different ways. What has made you continue to persevere in your fight against this?

Nicole Solas:

When it comes to my kids, I just don’t care who criticizes me. I don’t care. I understand that the risk of retaliation is there when you speak up about these things. I understand that’s very personal because it’s your community members, I’m sorry, your community. It’s not far away from you. It’s like, oh, my neighbors might hate me now but I just don’t care. And I think more parents need to just not care because these are your kids. You have one shot at raising them. And I’m in a special position because I don’t have a job to lose. I’m a stay-at-home mom. But I think a lot of us can find ways to fight back against this if we can just get over the fear that you’re going to be called racist because where we’re headed right now is everyone’s going to be called racist eventually. You can’t blink without being called racist.

We have to remember that our kids are worth the risk of retaliation. And at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter who hates you. You only need to worry that your kid loves you and you love them and you don’t want them to be subjected to this ideological education that you don’t agree with. And a lot of this is not even just ideological, like oh, I may not agree with it, but maybe they’ll learn it. It’s abusive. We’re telling our kids to start judging each other by the color of their skin and to feel bad about the color of their skin. What kind of dystopia are we just living in now? It’s absurd. It’s terrifying. That’s what keeps me going.

Beverly Hallberg:

Yeah. And on that, one of the things that I think is something to look at and something to just think through is if what is being taught is so wonderful, why is it hidden? And when people ask for it, why are there bullying tactics against those who are asking for more information into what it is? And so is there anything that you would say on that? For example, when you would find out when they would give information, you said initially people were being friendly as they were providing you the information. Was there anything that you pushed back on when you would get that information? Or are they purely just threatened by the fact that you’re asking?

Nicole Solas:

They’re threatened by the fact that I’m asking, and the reason why they’re hiding it is because they know that their work is controversial and they know that they cannot overcome a challenge on the merit. It’s like a religion. You’re not allowed to teach religion in public school. And you know that if someone says, “Hey, I think this is religion. I’m going to sue you because you can’t do this legally,” then they’re in trouble. They know they’re in that position but they are morally absolute. They’re like religious zealots. They want to do it because they truly believe they are the self-anointed saviors of your children who must learn what they believe about race and gender. And they don’t want to answer your questions about it because if you’re asking questions, then they assume that you are against them because you wouldn’t be asking questions about it if you agreed with it.

And I actually uncovered through my public records requests an email from my superintendent because I requested her emails, knowing that she was a true believer in this ideology. Her email said, “I’m getting a lot of public record”—and I’m paraphrasing—”I’m getting all these public records requests and emails from Nicole Solas.” I’m sorry, emails. “I’ve decided to treat her emails as public records requests because her questions go against the nature of our equity work.” They used the public records requests to evade my question and they did that because they knew that my questions were getting at the heart of the problem with what they’re doing, which is that it’s illegal. And they probably cannot overcome a constitutional challenge to it.

We have a lot of constitutional challenges that we can bring like freedom of speech, due process, Title 6 of the Civil Rights Act, which says that you can’t discriminate in public school. I think they’re trying to avoid that because that’ll probably be the beginning of the end of what they’re doing, which isn’t to say that it’s an easy challenge. I think it’s going to be years of fighting but that’s why they’re hiding it because they’re vulnerable.

Beverly Hallberg:

Oh, you live in the state of Rhode Island. What would you say to a parent out there who says, “Well, the state that I live in is more conservative. I don’t think this is being taught in my schools.” What would you say to that? And would you say that you were surprised by all you found out that was being taught in schools?

Nicole Solas:

I think if you live in a conservative district, you still need to look into your district. Don’t just ask questions. You actually need to send that public records request. And the reason is, is because people disagree on the meaning of words and semantics. People hear the word equity and they think equal. Equity is not the same thing as equality. It’s quite the opposite. It’s treating people differently, not equally. And your school district may be under the delusion that by engaging with things like diversity, equity, and inclusion that, oh, they’re just taking the next progressive step forward in this history with civil rights. This is just the next advancement. It’s not, it’s a regression. And you need to challenge your school board and your school district, whoever leader that you think you can challenge on what the meaning of that is. And the key question you need to ask is define anti-racism, define equity.

What is this thing that you think is so ideologically important? I can almost guarantee you, they’re not going to have an answer for you because I asked the superintendent in a neighboring district. I said, “What is the definition of anti-racism?” And she said, “Well, what it means to me is.” I said, “I don’t want to know what it means to you. I want to know the official definition by the school district because you have an anti-racism task force. How do you have a public body devoted to an idea that you can’t even define?” She said, “Well, we have a working definition.” We don’t want working definitions. We want what is actually being done with this word and this meaning. And if your school district can’t give you that, they’re hiding something.

A lot of times, people just want to move forward with this ideology because it feels good. It’s like, oh, we’re just being nice to minorities and diversity and inclusion. And it’s not a nice thing to do to treat people differently based on the color of their skin. There’s a lot of pressure to conform and to adopt these things, they’re getting a lot of money when they get funded to have diversity, equity, inclusion officers and offices but it’s going to be a slippery slope into an education that you didn’t know that you agreed to when you agreed to diversity, equity, inclusion or anti-racism or ridding the district of systemic racism. We need to all understand what all these things mean before we agree to have our kids in this district and pay for all of these programs that are going to come down the pipeline.

Beverly Hallberg:

Final question I have for you is, as you said earlier, the reason why you do this is you do it for your children and nothing’s more important than that. But for parents out there who are worried that maybe their children will be treated poorly because of what their mom or dad is saying out there or are just worried about the public backlash, what their neighbors will say, what the people in the community will say. Have your children faced any criticism from their friends? Or besides what you’ve experienced from the teachers’ union and the school board itself, have you been met with a lot of criticism and public shaming? Or have you gotten more support?

Nicole Solas:

I’ve gotten way more support. I’ve met so many people. I’ve made so many friends and allies. I really can’t say that this has been something that affected me personally in a negative way. If anything, my network has grown and I’ve made lifelong friends. My kids have not been targeted, but I took my daughter out of the public school district and put her in a private school. A private school which does not teach CRT or gender theory, welcomed me with open arms. I think that it’s a little bit of a myth that if you challenge this, your life will be over and you’ll be retaliated against. I actually think that’s a narrative that’s pushed by the left to have you not say anything. And you’ll be very surprised at the people that come out and support you.

I actually have people that are very, very liberal, who will whisper to me and say, “I support everything you do, by the way.” Even people on the left, they’re sending me private messages saying, “Keep going.” Give it a try. This isn’t going to be the end of the world if it doesn’t go exactly the way you want it to go but I can almost guarantee you that it is going to go well. And really the end of the world is going to be if your kids get brainwashed into believing a toxic ideology, that’ll ultimately separate you from your own children.

Beverly Hallberg:

And I did not ask you this question prior but I’m assuming if other parents out there are considering speaking up in their own communities, they can find you on social media and connect with you. Is that correct?

Nicole Solas:

Yes. Please follow me on Twitter. My Twitter handle is Nicoletta0602. It’s N-I-C-O-L-E-T-T-A 0602. And I’m happy to tell people what I did to get this far and the more people that can connect the better.

Beverly Hallberg:

Well, Nicole Solas, we so appreciate your bravery in standing up for your children and by extension, standing up for other people’s children as well. And we appreciate you joining She Thinks today. Thank you so much.

Nicole Solas:

Thank you.

Beverly Hallberg:

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