On this week’s episode of The Bespoke Parenting Hour, host Julie Gunlock talks to prominent Loudoun County dad Brandon Michon, known for yelling “Figure it out!” at a local school board meeting. Julie and Brandon talk about why school boards continue to fail our kids, his own path to activism, and why Loudoun county officials still can’t figure it out. Brandon is now running for Congress to help parents advocate for their kids and to help schools better serve families.
TRANSCRIPT
Julie Gunlock:
Hey, everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock, host of The Bespoke Parenting Hour. For those new to the program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom-tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves, and most importantly, their kids. I think a lot of my listeners are familiar with what’s been going on with the schools in Northern Virginia. But for those who are not following the situation, parents in Northern Virginia have launched what can only be described as a parent revolution against the public school system. A system that sadly is increasingly, and in recent years more rapidly, locking them out of decision-making. But it isn’t just that parents feel left out, parents feel maligned, ignored, sidelined. Parents are treated like the enemy, and let’s not forget, the National Association, rather, of School Boards actually sent a letter to the Department of Justice last year, late last year, asking that agency to investigate parents as domestic terrorists.
It really has become an us versus them situation, with the us being parents, and the them being the entire public school structure, from the teacher, to the school boards, to the superintendents. So in one area of Northern Virginia, called Loudoun County, it’s a county in Northern Virginia, parents are fighting back and generating a lot of viral videos, media attention, and most importantly, they’re generating change. Their demands are simple. They want open schools, unmasked kids. They want simple information from their school boards and superintendents on things like sexual assaults, which actually did happen in a Northern Virginia school, in a Loudoun County school and was actually covered up by the school.
They want curriculum transparency, again, greater communication with parents on curriculum, and the removal of pornographic materials. I’m not making this up, and you really should go check your own child’s library. Pornographic materials and books from school libraries that do show, not only graphic sexual situations, but sexual violence, very, very disturbing stuff.
They want teachers to go back to the basics, reading, writing, and arithmetic, and step away from CRT and other leftist subjects. And they ultimately want accountability of their elected officials. They want teachers to teach, not brainwash kids into turning into activists for leftist causes. This is not a lot to ask.
So today, one of the most prominent and vocal Loudoun parents is joining me today. Brandon Michon is a native of Loudoun County. He’s a father and a husband and a businessman, and he is a proud man of faith. As a parent, he stood up to the Loudoun County School Board when they shut down schools, covered up assaults, pushed controversial policies and forcibly masked children.
Brandon sparked a movement in Loudoun County and he became the voice for parents and children all across the nation as they continued to fight for their educational freedom. Brandon said it best when he told the Loudoun County School Board in a performance that went viral, to figure it out. Brandon is now running for Congress to represent the 10th District of Virginia. Hey Brandon, thanks so much for coming on.
Brandon Michon:
Thanks, Julie. Appreciate you having me.
Julie Gunlock:
We’ve talked on O’Connor & Company about all that you have done for parents in Loudoun County, and so I’m glad you’re coming on my podcast here because we get listeners from all over the country. And in the intro I sort of talked about the figure it out and your really, I think, very civil but aggressive stance against what the school board and local officials, what local officials have done in Loudoun County. But I think I’d like to back it up a little bit, because again, some folks might not be, for instance, our California listeners might not be as familiar what’s with what’s been going on in Northern Virginia.
And frankly, as a Northern Virginia parent, I’m always like, “How could you not know about this?” Like, “We’re viral, man.” Like, “Our movement is so important.”
Brandon Michon:
That’s right.
Julie Gunlock:
But I want to kind of go back and have you tell us, what was it that occurred? I will never forget you getting up. I think you said you were painting or something and you just-
Brandon Michon:
Yeah, I was ripping drywall out of my basement and my wife said, “Let’s go, Brandon, we got to go to the School Board meeting.”
Julie Gunlock:
So what was it? You’d obviously had some conversations with your wife. You were not happy what was going on. Sort of tell me what occurred that made you go to that meeting and get up there and give this passionate, figure it out speech.
Brandon Michon:
Yeah. Yeah. Well, most people don’t realize I was actually… So I grew up in Loudoun County. My wife grew up in Loudoun County. We both went to elementary and middle and high school here. So most people don’t have that background. And I spent some time up in New York City on my professional career before coming back. But when we came back to, and I actually live across the road from my parents. And so yeah, so bless my wife.
But my family has always been very active in the community. Growing up, my mother has been always very active within schools, et cetera. And so we actually started going to the school board meetings in the fall of 2020. I remember speaking at a school board meeting and I believe it was September or October where the school administrators were talking about punishing teachers if they had a differing view than the administration. And it wasn’t just in school, it could literally be you and I, Julie, talking at dinner at each other’s house and I say something you don’t agree with, and you could tattle on me and I could get fired.
And so this kind of stuff was already seeping its way into the system. And then fast forward a few months to January when I had this viral video, this is at like the peak of COVID where there’s 10 people in the building, you’re only allowed one person into this room that holds 200 people. And it was about five speakers before me, was a father with a special needs son who was inaudible. And he signed up for him and he signed up for his son. And he finished his one minute and they started speaking for his son. And the chair at the time, stopped him and said, “You’re not allowed to speak for that person.”
And he said, “Wait a second. My son is special needs and inaudible.” And you can see him on the video in the background, pacing back and forth, right? Like he obviously his own unique challenges. And he said, “Well, I’m here to speak on his behalf.” They said, “Well, you’re not allowed to do that.”
And you’re standing in the hallway listening to all this on, you’re listening to this literally over like a loud speaker and they went back and forth for probably two or three minutes arguing about whether or not he could speak for her. And this is the chair who’s on a school board, who’s supposed to have sympathy, empathy, compassion for the children. And they’re saying, “Oh, you know what? The rules are the rules here.” And after a couple minutes of this, he just kind of frustratedly walks away.
And what that says is that this public forum is not really about hearing the voice of the parents-
Julie Gunlock:
That’s right.
Brandon Michon:
… this public forum is about a process. And if you’re not following that process, there’s no wiggle room. Now she could easily have said, “Okay, please take your minute. And we’ll talk offline about it going forward.” But no, they literally just, they fueled the fire. Then I’m up with my wife. So my wife and my daughter and my son came in and they all spoke before me. And I listened to their speeches. And my daughter and my son came in and we had moved back here in the summer of 2020. And we moved back partially because we came home, as well as we wanted our kids in school. And my son said, “I just want to be in class.”
Now, this was at the time when schools, they were not even allowing the hybrid option.
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Brandon Michon:
“I just want to be in class because I don’t have any friends yet.” And you’re listening to that and you look up, you see these parents, I mean, sorry, you see these school administrators looking at their phone, looking down, not paying attention, but really what gets you, I say passionate, I don’t even say angry, passionate, is the scariest thing that adults do, or the scariest thing I would say almost in the world is public speaking. And when the youth stand up as one of their rights as citizens of this country, an example of democracy and say, “Please listen to my voice.” And your administrators don’t even acknowledge you, they just beep, you know, press the beep button and say, “Next,” like, what kind of example are we showing these youth?
And so then I get up there and I’m like, “Okay, well…” I start and I’m calm. And then you see the passion come up, because you realize that they’re not paying attention. And you heard it before, because if they were paying attention, they wouldn’t be arguing with this father. If they were paying attention, they would be thanking the youth for their courage to stand up. And I remember just a couple weeks ago when my son Duke and I spoke, he wanted to speak at that school board meeting a couple weeks ago because he said, “Dad…” And we’ve always let them speak when they want to. And he said, “Dad, I want to speak this week because I don’t want to get suspended for not wearing a mask.” And really, he told me after we both spoke, because he spoke before me and after me, he said, “Dad, I was nervous, my knees were shaking.”
And I said, “Duke, my knees were shaking too, bud.” Because you know what? It’s is… I’ve done a lot of media and I’ve been in… but it’s nerve wracking-
Julie Gunlock:
It is nerve wracking.
Brandon Michon:
… just to go up. And I mean, you’re putting yourself out there and you’re putting yourself out there with people looking and people maybe judging you. But if we’re not willing to have our voices be heard, then what are we doing as an example to our youth? And that’s what this role is at a school board. You are supposed to be helping our youth. You’re supposed to be helping mold them into people who are going to be just great citizens of our country. But if your example is a failed leadership, which is why those words came out, if you are not willing to lead, take a step aside because there are other people who are willing to do that, myself included.
Julie Gunlock:
I want to go a little bit further on what you’re saying here, because it’s really interesting. The cruelty of these school board members, and frankly also superintendents and actually some teachers as well. I mean, I know we’re not supposed to criticize teachers under any circumstances, but frankly I’m kind of tired of that because I have seen cruelty on the part of teachers and especially special needs teachers who have largely stayed quiet while students, particularly with special needs, have really suffered.
But this cruelty issue has been really fascinating to me because there seems to be no sympathy or empathy or a sense of service. I mean, they are in public service, they are public servants. And the idea is we are trying to better your community, serve people, help people. And it is so interesting to me now how it’s actually flipped, where they almost think of parents as sort of vassals or peasants, that they are sort of an elevated class. And I always think of these old movies where the King’s on his throne or the Queen’s on her throne and people come up and sort of ask questions, very timidly and like, “Oh can I have this?”
And it’s this sort of Dickensonian scene of more porridge, please. I don’t know when that happened. But I’ve talked to lifelong, I’m not, or I was not born or grew up in Alexandria, Virginia where I am, but I have talked to people who’ve lived in Alexandria their whole life. You lived in Loudoun your whole life. You must talk to your parents. They all say it was not like this. It really was not like this even 10 years ago.
What do you think shifted things to where parents are essentially begging for pretty basic things, and these government officials, essentially, this is what they are and elected officials, treat them with such disdain and sort of smug, like nothing you say matters. When did this change happen?
Brandon Michon:
Well, so I graduated in 2005 in Loudoun County, and I’ve seen just, I guess since then, you can see really the deterioration of the public school system. So I think a lot of it, you can look at it from a national or state or local level, but I think you could even go back to the early 2000s with like the No Child Left Behind.
Brandon Michon:
I’m not going to act like I’m some historian with regard to education, but there was a point where the focus went from people exceeding and that was the only… You can exceed to the best of your ability to, we now need to force metrics. And if you’re forcing metrics to qualify for grants or money, et cetera, then you’re forcing schools to not try to excel.
And part of what we are running on for our platform for Congress is, and I think this goes back to it, and I’ll get back to the question too, is focus on literacy, focus on financial literacy, focus on trade schools and incubator programs. Because if you’re not only focused on secondary education, then there are going to be students who may not love history, they may not love certain topics within in the curriculum, but they’re very passionate about carpentry or electrical or something else where they’re going to have a way, they’re going to have more success in their professional career, through something they are passionate about, than talking about humanities. And-
Julie Gunlock:
Well, listen. I want to get more into this and I am, but I want to close a little bit of the loop on your activism with the school board. And then I do want to talk about your congressional run and this platform. And I love what you’re saying about getting kids to consider things like trade schools and other options besides [inaudible 00:14:53] [crosstalk 00:14:53]
Brandon Michon:
Yeah. To answer the question on what’s, what’s causing it. There’s a few things. I think COVID, albeit has been horrible for the world, there’s no doubt about that, what it did was it slowed everything down. If you think about our lives in 2019, and my wife calls it the Icarus year, right? Where people probably flew too close to the sun. Everyone was busy. If you have young children like me, or even if you have teenagers, or even if you don’t, everyone had soccer practice, baseball practice, tennis camps, Scout camps, you name it, that were taking people on all different directions and then the world stopped and all of that stopped.
And what that did was one, you had online schooling, which exposed what was going on in the classroom. People were now hearing it because they weren’t in the office. And if they were, they had to pay attention differently than they did before. And so people said, “Wait a second. What’s going on here?” Which means all of this stuff has been planted into the system over the last few years. And I think some of it in Loudoun, I think it’s been probably in the last handful of years where you start planting the seeds, those seeds, or weeds, I guess, those weeds into the system, and people because lives were busy, weren’t paying attention at the same level. Because let’s be honest, local politics has not been in the news the same as federal politics.
Everyone was so worried about this last administration and what they’re tweeting. But when it comes down to the bread and butter of what impacts you locally and your taxes and your schools, I mean, I’ve been telling people, “Go back and Google school boards pre 2020. You barely saw an article. Now, every day there’s something.” Which means people are paying attention again, and maybe shame on us for not paying attention earlier, but sometimes you need to be awakened. And we’re saying, “Wait a second, we got off track. We need to get back on track and the ideologies and agendas that you’re pushing are not best for the children.”
Julie Gunlock:
Well, I think that we were seeing… Hang on one sec. Sorry, that was my husband’s phone. Sorry, demo. Now I’m starting over. Well, I think it’s interesting. I think this type of activism in the schools, as you say, we weren’t maybe paying attention, but it was there all along. I remember my children coming home with these sort of like doomsday environmental alarmism sort of worries that I would constantly have to course correct them. There was some gender and sort of sexual content I didn’t want my kids hearing about. My kids, by the way, do not go to public school anymore. But I noticed a few of those things way before COVID and the George Floyd death, which I think really set off this whole CRT curriculum going into schools.
But I do think it was the George Floyd murder plus COVID that created this sort of perfect storm really, and where teachers were pretty much, it was almost, I’m not kidding, I think it was like a switch went off and teachers, who had already been flirting with turning children into activists for, of course, leftist causes, were then just completely like, “Nope, we’re done. This is our job. It is not to teach sort of the basics, it is to teach activism and to turn kids.” I mean, it reminds me so much of sort of Mao’s Red Soldiers, this sort of like little students carrying out his sort of dream of this perfect society. It’s all very creepy. But-
Brandon Michon:
But, Julie, here’s the thing. The teachers, yes, it’s coming, but it’s coming from the administrators pushed down. Like the CRT question, there is no book, no one’s slamming down a 1,500 page book of like, “Here’s CRT, kids, read and digest.” If you look, and I have teachers that are within my community here, who tell me, they’re like, “It’s the trainings, it’s the-
Julie Gunlock:
Oh, that’s exactly right.
Brandon Michon:
… it’s the indoctrination pushing down. And the problem is when you’re putting policies in… and think about the sequence of events. I told you this earlier. When you’re putting policies in October of 2020, saying that if you defy what we want, we’re going to fire you. And then three months later, “We’re going to put in controversial bathroom policies, so good luck fighting me, because I’ve already scared you that you’re going to be canceled.”
And so the teachers kind of get their hands tied in a lot of ways. And look, I’m not saying that look, indoctrination works on all levels, right? And so children and adults and say, “Well, this is what they keep feeding us, it’s what I have to do. And I’m worried about my job.” But the administrators and what you learn is these school board meetings are the final stamp of an already baked curriculum or agenda.
It’s the subgroups, the equity initiative group or the education initiative group that they’re meeting on different days that are not highly publicized, but that is where all of it gets baked. And the meeting is just almost theater.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, exactly.
Brandon Michon:
And it goes back to elections. If we don’t have and elect the right people, we cannot fight that because the left would rather have the control of their agenda than the betterment of the education of the kids. And it’s evident because if not, you wouldn’t be focused on any of this.
Julie Gunlock:
Well, look, you are… Wanted to shift or pivot over to your run for Congress. You are running. And let me tell you, I, “figure it out” is now a normal part of my vocabulary. I scream it at the kids.
Brandon Michon:
They were there before, people just didn’t know.
Julie Gunlock:
I know. I scream it at the kids regularly, “Hey, Mom, I can’t find my homework.” “Figure it out.” I’m just like, I scream regularly.
Brandon Michon:
Raise the bar.
Julie Gunlock:
You are famous for that. You’re famous, not only for these phrases, “Raise the bar, figure it out,” but also just the passion that you showed and really, I think you spoke for parents that were just at the end of their ropes. They were just frustrated beyond belief. And you take a nice guy like you, and then you push them enough and eventually you get someone screaming, “Figure it out.”
So you really are really well known in Northern Virginia, but obviously nationwide. You’re running for Congress. I think this is so exciting. Tell us about your platform, tell us what your priorities are, what you’ll do if you get to Congress.
Brandon Michon:
Yeah. So, I’m a dad. And so I’ve been telling people I’m a dad first, I’m a politician last. I went to the last school board meeting, spoke with my son and I was in jeans and a pullover. And there are [inaudible 00:21:47] there in suits trying to hand out swag, but I’m a dad first and I’m a politician last. But what happened was, I was involved in all of this because I care about the kids and I care about the future of their education. And fast forward through much of last year, I had the opportunity on the campaign trail at various times with Governor Youngkin talking about education, because he recognized that early. He called me the day after my video and said, “Brandon, this is a movement that people would spend a lot of money to try to create, and I don’t think you could spend any amount of money to create this organic movement.”
We’ve seen that because again, Google school board meetings nationally and it’s in the news all the time, because whether it was me or maybe it was a spark that just lit a bunch of kindling that was out there ready to light a fire, but parents realized like, “Hey, wait a second. This guy’s right.” You’re right. People were at the end of the rope and they said, “Enough is enough. And I can go speak up too.”
And I don’t encourage everyone to use the same medium that I did, but mine was an elevation of passion. But it was words that have to be said because there’s a time when like you’ve gone before, you go and you speak softly, but there’s a time in, everyone knows this with children too, sometimes you have to be stern with them to get their attention. And so, fast forward to the November, we were able to change Virginia. And a lot of that was on parents. I mean, we had 25% higher turnout in the state and that was because people said, “Hey, this stuff matters.”
Julie Gunlock:
Yep.
Brandon Michon:
And what happened was Glenn’s team came to me and said, “Hey, we need someone who can win because the message that we have had,” and I’ve done this and I’ve been very conscious about this. This is a bipartisan topic. Parents can agree that the curriculum, we’ll disagree on a few things within the curriculum, but they want to see their kids educated better. And they want to be in safe environments where they’re not worried about their safety within the bathrooms or-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah. They also want public servants to hear them, not dismiss them or call them Nazis or call them terrorists.
Brandon Michon:
Or domestic terrorists, yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
Or domestic terrorists. That is what they want. They want a fair hearing of their grievances and concerns.
Brandon Michon:
Correct.
Julie Gunlock:
And I think as a father first, and as someone who stood up to the school board, you are going to understand that better than frankly, anybody in Congress right now. There’s a lot of sympathetic ears up there, but you actually did it and lived it. I have one-
Brandon Michon:
And that’s right. And just to finish the thought also, Julie, on the run, is there was a time…. This is a moment in time when a father who grew up or a man who grew up in Loudoun County has roots here, spoke up, a movement has been started that our voices matter. And it was a parents’ movement and it’s moved to a citizen’s movement, and to a taxpayers’ movement. And we’re running a platform on really three simple things. So the pillars are education, safety, and the economy. And there’s things that bridge all political gaps. There’s no Democrat discount card at the gas pump or at the grocery store. Nobody’s knocking on your business door before they commit a crime asking who you voted for, and our children deserve better.
And my view as an outsider, and my background’s investment banking, so I have a very strong knowledge of the economy. But we need people who are going to go and fight for the right things versus political ideology. And I think 95% of America just wants to work, make a little more money, have some free time, have some disposable income, and have the government stay out of their way and educate and protect our communities. And we need to get back to the basics before we start worrying about all the other stuff.
Julie Gunlock:
I have one more question, and this is kind of a personal question.
Brandon Michon:
Sure.
Julie Gunlock:
I live in Alexandria, Virginia. I try to tell people all the time, this is a very different place than Loudoun and Fairfax. It’s a little closer to Fairfax, but I feel like in Loudoun, gosh, you have a… it’s crazy town on your school board, right? Your superintendent is just one of the worst, I would say, in the nation. But the great thing is, is that you have people like you who stand up, but there’s a lot of, and there’s a lot of vocal parents just like you that have stood up and said, “This is wrong.”
Brandon Michon:
That’s right.
Julie Gunlock:
But there’s also a lot of people who maybe don’t feel comfortable getting up in front of the school board, who support you quietly. You get a lot of praise.
Brandon Michon:
Mm-hmm.
Julie Gunlock:
In Alexandria, Virginia, there’s almost nobody who ever stands up. Nobody, nobody, people are so compliant and quiet here. Now, I live in the deepest darkest, I think blue city in Northern Virginia. Alexandria is truly, truly leftist in a profound way. And so there isn’t a lot of disagreement, but although people… the other problem is some people do start to-
Brandon Michon:
I think there is. They just [crosstalk 00:26:48]
Julie Gunlock:
Well, yeah, they don’t say anything. There is a lot of anger about things, but people are too afraid. Because I will tell you, there are vicious parents here that if you do speak up, let’s just say, there’s some retribution you’ll have to deal with.
What advice do you give to parents that live in that? Because I think this happens all over the country and all over California and Oregon and some of the more, in Illinois. What advice do you give to parents who are truly scared to stand up?
Brandon Michon:
Well, first and foremost, we should love our neighbors, right? And I think a lot of the topics in what we’re running on as a campaign is stuff that I can sit, I can invite whether you’re registered Republican or Democrat, you to my dinner table and we can have a conversation and agree on a lot of things. Now, there may be some things within policy that we don’t agree on, but we can all agree on education, safety, the economy. This administration has created the most divisive kind of nation we’ve had, where they have said, “If you do not go get the vaccine, you are going to kill people. You are evil. If you do not wear a mask, you are going to kill people. If you do not do this, you are bad.” And the messaging of this partisan divisive nature within politics is seeping down to people, and you can probably blame social media as well.
Most of these people, and I’ve seen it, I’ve had people say some horrible stuff about me and even about my son after we did some media, that they would never say to my face or to my child’s face. And we need to move back as a society, to people who are willing to do things that are better for our communities, understanding that we may not agree on every topic, but that’s okay. And again, if it comes down to mask, if you don’t want to wear a mask, that’s okay. If you want to wear a mask, then feel free to do that. There needs to be more personal accountability. And for those who are worried about people coming after them, just know that there are a lot of people out there that support you and support your message. And you can check us out on social media. We’re happy to stand behind with you.
I’m tired of adults hiding behind our children when we should be standing in front of our children. They are the most innocent and easily influenced part of the population. The government and this administration has used them as political pawns, and enough is enough. And I think there’s parents all throughout this country, regardless of where you live, that want to speak up. And I just encourage them to do so because know that your voice matters. Our campaign is, we, together, can figure it out. We, together, can raise the bar in Washington. This is a voice of the people. This is a movement that started as parents, it’s moved to citizens, taxpayers, and all across the nation we are hearing that, please help us, please raise the bar, please figure it out. And that’s what we’re going to do.
And I encourage everyone to check us out, brandonforcongress.com. There are so many people just like you, Julie, who have been fighting this fight that we just need to know that we love every single one of them. We love, regardless if our opinions differ, we can all care. We should all as a country work to move through this troubling time we’ve been in, and know that we can make this country better.
And our founding fathers knew it. They put policy and our constitution in place as a document that has been a beacon of light to the world. And that’s why this is the best country in the world, because we may have some times where we need to figure things out, but we can do it. And we need to just have some more empathy and compassion for our neighbors.
Julie Gunlock:
Well, I love it. You’re a fighter, but you’re… I love that last message on compassion and love of your neighbors. I want to just be real clear. Brandon, his website is brandonforcongress.com, correct?
Brandon Michon:
Yes. It’s Brandon F-O-R congress.com.
Julie Gunlock:
Great. And Brandon is B-R-A-N-D-O-N?
Brandon Michon:
Just like, Let’s Go Brandon. B-R-A-N-D-O-N.
Julie Gunlock:
But not exactly like, let’s go, Brandon. [crosstalk 00:30:54]
Brandon Michon:
My name is Brandon. I say, my name’s Brandon Michon. Let’s go, Brandon. I’ve heard it my whole life as an athlete and everything else.
Julie Gunlock:
There’s going to be yeah, two famous Brandons in the country these days.
Brandon Michon:
That’s right.
Julie Gunlock:
You are a great guest. We are rooting for you. I swear, I’m going to have to now move out to Loudoun County so I can vote for you. I am thrilled that you came on here. I know that you are in demand, so I appreciate you taking time to come and talk to us. And again, brandonforcongress.com. Everybody should check him out and support him, support his race. We’re real thrilled for you and excited for the people of thank Loudoun County.
Brandon Michon:
Thank you. Well, thank you again. Thanks Julie. For having me. This is the parents, citizens and taxpayers movement. We’re excited about it. Thank you for all that you do and spreading the word about the importance of parents and women’s involvement. Mothers are the key of everything. So thank you again for having me.
Julie Gunlock:
Great. Thanks Brandon. Thanks everyone for being here for another episode of The Bespoke Parenting Hour. If you enjoyed this episode or like the podcast in general, please leave a rating or review on iTunes. This helps ensure that the podcast reaches as many listeners as possible. If you haven’t subscribed to The Bespoke Parenting Hour on iTunes, Spotify, Google Play, or wherever you get your podcast, please do so so you won’t miss an episode. Don’t forget to share this episode and let your friends know that they can get Bespoke episodes on their favorite podcast app. From all of us here at the Independent Women’s Forum, thanks for listening.