Angela Morabito joins the podcast this week to talk Title IX, educational equity, and charter schools. We discuss the Biden administration’s upcoming release of its regulatory proposal on Title IX and what this will mean for due process rights for college students. We also consider how Title IX applies to the transgender issue in women’s sports, which is especially timely as NCAA competitive swimmer Lia Thomas speaks out. We cover the Chicago school district instituting race-based grading as part of a push for educational equity. And finally, we discuss the White House’s efforts to block charter schools from federal funding.
Angela Morabito is the spokesperson at the Defense of Freedom Institute, an independent nonprofit that provides thoughtful, conservative solutions to policy challenges in education and the workforce. She is the former U.S. Department of Education press secretary. Angela holds a bachelor’s of science in foreign service and a liberal arts master’s degree from Georgetown University. After more than 12 years in Washington, D.C., she now lives in Atlanta.
TRANSCRIPT
Beverly Hallberg:
And welcome to She Thinks, a podcast where you’re allowed to think for yourself. I’m your host, Beverly Hallberg, and on today’s podcast, we have a full one for you. First, we’re going to be discussing the Biden administration’s upcoming release of its regulatory proposal on Title IX. What will this mean for due process rights for college students? We’re also going to discuss how Title IX applies to the transgender issue in women’s sports. This is especially important as Lia Thomas, the competitive swimmer, spoke out this week. Then we’re going to move to Chicago, where a school district has instituted race-based grading as part of a push for what they’re referred to as educational equity. And finally, we’re going to get into the White House’s efforts to block charter schools from federal funding.
A lot to get into, but we have a great guest to break it all down. Angela Morabito joins us. Angela Morabito is a spokesperson at the Defense of Freedom Institute, an independent nonprofit that provides thoughtful conservative solutions to policy challenges in education and the workforce. She is the former U.S. Department of Education press secretary, and therefore has a lot of experience in this ed space. It’s a pleasure to have her on today. Angela, thank you so much for joining She Thinks.
Angela Morabito:
Beverly, thanks so much for having me on.
Beverly Hallberg:
I know we’re going to get a lot into Title IX. I thought we would first start by having you define what is Title IX. This is something that was passed in 1972. What was this supposed to accomplish?
Angela Morabito:
It was supposed to end sex discrimination in federally-funded programs. Most people think of Title IX as a women’s sports law or provision, and it did require equal opportunities for women to compete in sports at the high school and college level. But what it does is actually a lot bigger than that. It ensures that everyone is able to access an education free from discrimination. And if you’re part of an organization that receives federal funding, you are not allowed to discriminate on the basis of sex. And if you do, you can lose that federal funding.
Beverly Hallberg:
So Title IX is a good thing that was instituted quite a few years ago, a few decades ago. But this administration, the Biden administration, is suggesting that there are some changes to it. So there’s a regulatory proposal that they’re going to be releasing sometime this month, sometime in June. I believe this has already been delayed. It was supposed to come out in May. So first of all, tell us: do you think we will hear about what these supposed changes are, and what are they actually proposing?
Angela Morabito:
Well, I sure hope we get to find out about these proposed changes soon because the announcement’s been delayed a couple times, that it is past time that we find out what the Biden administration actually wants to do. And so far, based on an executive order about gender discrimination and thanks to a leak in the Washington Post, we’re pretty confident and very, very concerned that the Biden administration will reinterpret and misinterpret Title IX to be about gender identity and not about biological sex.
People think of Title IX for women’s sports. This would effectively destroy women’s sports because it would mean anyone can compete if they identify as a woman. So you would have biological males competing against biological females. It would also mean that locker rooms, restrooms, and schools that receive federal funding, which is almost all of them, would not really be designated spaces for separate sexes. It would all be based on how you identify, not based on the sex on your birth certificate.
Beverly Hallberg:
And we’re going to get into the sports side of this, which you said does get a lot of the attention. But there’s another side to this, which is what does this mean for sexual harassment, sexual abuse allegations, and due process? I know your organization, the Defense of Freedom Institute, has been working on this issue quite a bit, trying to push against what the Biden administration is doing. But what could it mean for the concern that many people may have about sexual assault supposedly increasing on college campuses?
Angela Morabito:
This could potentially redo all of the great progress that was made by the 2020 Title IX rule. And I had the honor of serving under Secretary DeVos in the Trump administration, in the Department of Ed, when they announced this rule. And it put in place some really critical due process protections for all students, whether you are the accused student or the accuser, the survivor.
The 2020 Title IX rule protects everyone. It means that each party would have the opportunity to see and respond to evidence. Each party would have to know what they’re accused of. Everyone who was part of this would have to be willing to answer questions, willing to be cross-examined. These are really, really basic elements of the justice system that you think of in a courtroom, and they weren’t happening on college campuses. What you had was actually, in so many cases, kangaroo courts. And there were more than 150 documented instances of students who sued their schools and won because they had been denied due process. So we don’t want to go back to the bad old days, but that’s really what we’re at risk of if this 2020 rule goes away.
Beverly Hallberg:
What do you say to those individuals who think that the 2020 rule should go away? Because one of the things that it does, then, enforce is that somebody who is accusing someone else of sexual abuse against them, that that person has to relive their experience, has to speak on it. What do you say to those who say a woman has already been through enough; she doesn’t need to go through retelling her story as well?
Angela Morabito:
That’s a great point, and I would encourage that person to look very closely at the protections that are in place for survivors. And some of those are that the school is required to provide them supportive services. So if you were to go to your Title IX officer, your Title IX office and you say, like, “Sexual misconduct happened to me. I need some help,” they are required to offer you things like changing your class schedule, changing your dorm assignment. Making sure that you are protected no matter what you decide about the future of your Title IX complaint.
So those protections are there, and due process protects everyone. Having to answer questions about your experience is the same thing that somebody might face in a court of law if something wasn’t Title IX-related, if something was another sort of crime. And one of those other protections in the rule is that those two students, the accused and the accuser, never have to come face to face. Anybody can request that the hearing be done virtually, and students are actually prohibited from cross-examining each other. So there’s a lot in place there to really minimize the impact on a survivor and to make this process as fair and efficient as possible to get towards justice.
Beverly Hallberg:
And something people may be thinking as they’re listening to this, if they’re not part of the higher education system, they may be thinking, why does this go through a university, a college to begin with? Why isn’t this just taken directly to the police department, have the justice system work through it? Why is it often run through the school?
Angela Morabito:
Well, the legal structure in place says that schools have a responsibility under Title IX to ensure access to education free from sex discrimination. So that puts the burden on the schools, really, to do everything that they can and everything that they’re obligated to do to protect all students. So it is a little bit of a legal quirk that can be a little tough for folks to understand. But that’s why schools have to have these systems in place because, based on Title IX, it is their responsibility to make sure that students aren’t facing sex discrimination as a barrier to their education.
Beverly Hallberg:
And so, as you said earlier, Title IX, it is whether or not the Biden administration will change the language, say, gender identity versus based on men and women. And so this affects women’s sports quite a bit. Lia Thomas, this is the male swimmer who is identifying as female, competing in competitive women’s swimming, create a lot of controversy. So if there is this change to Title IX, what does it mean for Lia Thomas? What does it mean for other males who identify as women and want to compete against women?
Angela Morabito:
It means that there could be thousands more Lia Thomas’s in sports at every level of schooling, of education across the country. This really would pave the way for the end of women’s sports because, instead of reserving women’s sports for women, it would be women’s sports for anyone who identifies as a woman, regardless of biological facts. So I have absolutely no animosity toward Lia. I can only imagine what it is like to be at the center of this media firestorm. But that doesn’t change the facts: that it is patently unfair to have biological men competing against biological women.
And there’s something I’ve been saying over and over again on Twitter that people have kind of grabbed onto, and that’s that second is the new first. Because when you’re competing against a biological man, those women are all competing for second place. And if the left wants to redefine what a woman is, we ought to be able to redefine what a winner is, and make sure that these biological women are not missing out on opportunities to compete at the highest level of their sport and not missing out on scholarship opportunities and other opportunities that are there for student athletes.
Beverly Hallberg:
And if this new rule is introduced, where it does change how Title IX defines gender, saying it’s now gender identity, is this instituted right away? Do you expect there to be a lot of lawsuits as this move forward? What can we expect with the process?
Angela Morabito:
Well, I expect a lot of public pressure because I think the American people are pretty fed up with being told to deny the biological facts that are right in front of their eyes. What is going to happen here in the next couple weeks, we believe, is that the Biden administration will issue a proposed rule. Thankfully, won’t go into effect right away, and we’ll all have an opportunity to issue public comments. People think like, “Well, what is public comment?” You go online and you say, “This is what needs to be addressed here. These are the issues that I have with what you’re proposing.”
When we did the 2020 Title IX rule, there were an incredible amount of public comments, and they do get taken very seriously. The Department of Education by law will have to go through all of these comments that it received. These comments could be positive or negative. But knowing where the American public stands on this issue, I would anticipate that there would be an absolute tidal wave of comments saying, “Don’t redefine biological sex. Don’t undo 50 years of progress for the rights of women under Title IX.” So there will be a time period to issue public comment. The Defense of Freedom Institute is prepared to take action and prepared to help everyone make their voices heard on this because it’s too important to just ignore, to just cede this territory to the left and say, “Do whatever you want. Better luck next administration.” That’s not a good enough answer for America’s students.
Beverly Hallberg:
And so it sounds like what you would urge people to do, listening to this program, you would say definitely speak out. For those who do want to speak out, what can they do?
Angela Morabito:
Well, there’s going to be an opportunity with the Defense of Freedom Institute, where you’ll be able to make… to issue public comments. But at the same time, this is not just a federal issue. This is an issue that’s happening at your local school board, in your local community, at the state level. You have governors and legislatures who are trying to pass bills to say the obvious, which is women’s sports are for women; women’s restrooms, women’s locker rooms are for women. And it’s about protecting all students. It’s not about casting blame on anyone. It’s making sure that everyone has an equal right to an education fair from discrimination.
And making that case and speaking out publicly, whether that’s on social media, whether that’s at your local school board meeting, all of that matters. Because we’re seeing parents stand up for their students in record numbers these past few years, really, since the pandemic exposed what was going on in education. And every time parents get involved, things change for the better. So while I can’t go line by line and say exactly what’s going to be in this Title IX proposal, we have a sense that the Biden administration is going to really make a misstep here and that parents and other concerned citizens are going to want to speak out.
Beverly Hallberg:
Well, before we continue the conversation, I have a question for all of our listeners today. And that is, do you find yourself alone? Do you find yourself in a position where you feel like, as a conservative woman, it’s hard to find a place to belong? Well, I have some news for you. Lauren Evans and Virginia Allen are the place to turn on their podcast. It is called Problematic Women. They sort through the news to bring you stories and interviews that are of particular interest to you, a problematic woman — that is, a woman whose opinions are often excluded or even mocked by those on the so-called, pro-women left. Lauren and Virginia break down the news you care about in an upbeat and sharp-witted way. Search for Problematic Women wherever you get your podcasts.
Well, Angela, moving on to another topic we wanted to hit on in relation to education. A new ruling coming out or a new, I guess, investigation into what Chicago schools are doing. In the suburbs there, there is a school district that was instituted race-based grading as a part of a push for what they referred to as educational equity. Tell us about this: what have you found, and what is being done about it?
Angela Morabito:
Well, there’s a school district in the Chicago suburbs that has announced that, in the next school year, they want to institute what they think, what they call, is an equitable grading policy. But in reality, it’s anything but fair. It would actually remove elements from the grading process that these district leaders believe are disproportionately harmful to students of color. That may sound okay on its face. You want education to be fair. We all want education to be fair. But what it would actually do is prevent teachers from docking someone’s grade from misbehaving in class, for missing class, for failing to turn in an assignment. Really, really basic pieces that keep schools functioning.
It’s not only illegal, I believe, under the equal protection clause in Title VI, because it’s race discrimination in a federally-funded organization. It’s also just awful to tell kids of color that they cannot achieve at a high level, that their school district expects less of them because of what they look like. This is the soft bigotry of low expectations in action, and it’s going to really, really harm these kids.
Beverly Hallberg:
And I wonder what teachers think about this, feel about this. I feel like teachers, especially during the age of COVID — now we’re seeing so much with critical race theory, the transgender issue — that so many teachers are being called out, those who are part of unions. But I would assume that you hear often from teachers who feel like they don’t know what to do. They’re being asked to do things that they don’t agree with, and that they’re in a really tough spot. When you speak to teachers, what do you often hear from them?
Angela Morabito:
I hear exactly the frustration that you described. These teachers got the job. They went to school for this, and they go to work every day because they want to help students learn. They didn’t sign up to indoctrinate students with a political ideology they may or may not agree with. But what you have are these education bureaucrats, these powers that be, trying to force their hand, trying to force teachers to teach a certain set of values instead of teaching critical thinking and instead of teaching objective facts. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Beverly Hallberg:
And the government is also trying to keep everything within a public school so they can force rules. There’s a new plan, that it looks like the Biden administration’s going to issue a rule that would block charter schools from federal funding. We’re talking about the amount of $440 million in new federal grants, unless they jump through a lot of regulatory hoops. What is this rule that could come down? When could it come down, and how damaging could it be?
Angela Morabito:
This rule could really come down with any point. I mean, the public comment period has happened. Plenty of people spoke out and said, “Why are you trying to snuff out charter schools when there are a million kids on wait lists for them nationwide?” The parental demand is absolutely there, but what is not there in this administration is the political will. They are trying to set up a system where public charter schools — and charter schools are public schools — would end up being blocked from funding without the approval of the local union. They would have to jump through crazy regulatory hoops that don’t help anyone. They just make it harder for charter schools to exist. This should not be the end of charter schools in America. In fact, we need more charters, not less.
So with enough public outcry and enough public pressure, the Biden administration, I really, really hope will consider just neglect… abandoning this misguided proposal. The Defense of Freedom Institute issued one of those public comments and said, “Hey, wait a second. This is absolutely the wrong thing to do. It is anti-family. It is anti-student.” Just in a similar fashion, albeit not exactly the same, DFI has also filed a complaint with the Department of Ed’s Office for Civil Rights about that race-based grading policy, saying, “Wait a second. This is absolutely racism, race discrimination in a federally-funded institution. And the government has an obligation to investigate and to make sure that this doesn’t happen.”
Beverly Hallberg:
And I think the key phrase that you said there in relation to charter schools are teachers’ unions. So is a lot of this about a teacher’s union feeling threatened, maybe, especially since so many parents pulled their kids out of the traditional public school? Of course, some did other school choice options such as homeschooling or private school. But a lot of them want to put their kids into public charter schools. Do you think that the unions are getting scared?
Angela Morabito:
I think so, and I think they’re right to be scared, because we’re watching a school choice wave take place across this country. And the unions are at risk of losing their monopoly power, finally. This entire charter school proposal that the administration issued was basically an in-kind donation to the teacher’s unions. This was a giveaway to their union buddies to help them maintain that monopoly control.
So yeah, the unions are terrified of this, terrified of school choice because they want to keep that monopoly on government-funded schools. It’s really telling, also, that President Biden used to be a big fan of charter schools. He actually spoke really, really positively about them until he ran for president. So that shows you the power of the union influence, that it’s not working for students; it’s not working for families. They’re playing a political game, and I really hope they’re not allowed to win.
Beverly Hallberg:
His flip-flopping is definitely — it’s not the first time it’s happened in this issue, as well as other issues that he’s flip-flopped on. Just final question for you. I think a lot of times, as we have parents listening to the different issues going on in school. Again, there is COVID, there’s critical race theory, the transgender issue. Now you have this issue about race-based grading. I know there have been a lot of fights about merit-based education and trying to remove some of the rules about schools related to merit-based education. A lot of parents are just wondering, where does this fight end? I think a lot of parents probably are tired. It seems like wherever they turn, there are changes being made and under the auspices of, “Oh, this is equity. This is important.” But it’s really woke ideology being instituted. What encouragement do you give to parents?
Angela Morabito:
That the more parents step up, the more change actually happens. And we are seeing parents show up at schools, at school board meetings. And I’m always going to be on the side of having a good faith conversation with your child’s teacher or with your school board, by calling your legislator. As long as you make that effort in good faith, I think the outcomes can be really, really positive. I’ve seen it myself where, when parents step up, things get better. They get better in terms of curriculum transparency. Parents should have that clear window into what their kids are learning and how they’re learning it. There is really no downside to parental engagement, as long as it’s done in a respectful way. So the tide has turned. These parents have momentum, and I think that we ought to fully support them in being in the driver’s seat of their child’s education.
Beverly Hallberg:
And if people do want to get involved, help with the comments, help with public opinion and sharing their message, where can they go? How can they reach out to you or the Defense of Freedom Institute?
Angela Morabito:
The place to go is dfipolicy.org. You will see all the great stuff our folks are working on to protect the rights of students and parents in schools. You can also check us out @DFIPolicy on Twitter and on Facebook as well.
Beverly Hallberg:
Well, Angela Morabito, spokesperson at the Defense of Freedom Institute, we appreciate all this information, also for you joining us on She Thinks today.
Angela Morabito:
Thanks so much for having me.
Beverly Hallberg:
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