Meghan McCain joins the podcast this week. We discuss it all — motherhood as a soon-to-be mom of two, her decision to leave The View and life after, and what it’s like to be a conservative woman who is often attacked for her opinions.
Meghan McCain is a former co-host of ABC’s The View, which she joined in October 2017. While at The View, the show rose to new heights, with McCain earning two daytime Emmy nominations for Outstanding Entertainment Talk Show Host. As the daughter of the late Senator John McCain, Meghan has been steeped in the high-stakes political arena since childhood. Often said to possess the McCain “maverick gene,” Meghan has no qualms about saying what is on her mind, bragging that she inherited “my dad’s heartburn-inducing ability to say what he thinks.” A powerful, singular role model for women and Republicans alike, McCain passionately discusses women’s issues, social issues, and LGBTQIA equality.
TRANSCRIPT
Beverly Hallberg:
And welcome to She Thinks, a podcast where you’re allowed to think for yourself. I’m your host Beverly Hallberg and I’m delighted that Meghan McCain joins us this week. There’s so much we’re going to discuss, including the ever important topic of motherhood. She recently announced that she is pregnant with her second daughter, so we’re going to ask her how she’s feeling and how she is preparing for two little ones. We’re also going to chat about her decision to leave The View and what life has been like after. And finally, she’ll share with us what it’s like to be a conservative woman who is often attacked for her opinions. And we’re going to go ahead and bring her on.
And while she needs no introduction, a little bit more about Meghan. Meghan McCain is a former co-host of ABC’s The View, which she joined in October of 2017. While at the View this show rose to new heights earning two daytime Emmy nominations for outstanding entertainment talk show host. As a daughter of late Senator John McCain, Meghan has been steeped in the high stakes political arena since childhood. Often said to possess the McCain Maverick gene, Meghan has no qualms about saying what is on her mind and we’re so glad she’s with us today to share what is on her mind today. So thank you Meghan so much for being here for She Thinks.
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, thank you so much for having me. It’s a pleasure to talk to you today. I love IWF so I’m really just happy to be here to talk to you. Thank you.
Beverly Hallberg:
Yeah. We so appreciate it. And I want to start with the big news that you announced, I think it was last week that you announced this, and that is that you are pregnant with baby number two, another girl. So first of all, congratulations and how are you feeling?
Meghan McCain:
Thank you. Yeah, it’s weird. It feels weird to be pregnant again. It wasn’t totally expected. I didn’t know if I could actually have any more kids. I’ve had a lot of health problems, I’ve had multiple miscarriages, I had preeclampsia when I had my first daughter, so I just did feel like wildly blessed and excited and also very intimidated to have two children because I feel like I sort of just got the hang of having one and she’s two years old now, so it’s a little, and I know that sounds weird, but it takes a long time to adapt and to figure out how to take care of them and to make sure they’re balanced and she just started preschool, so starting it all over again is a little bit intimidating.
But I’m really happy. I mean I feel like physically good because I’m out of the throwing up phase and stuff that happens in the beginning. But I was starting to show a lot of places, which is why I announced it cause I was like, “People are obviously going to figure this out when they see me.” And I was just really hesitant to share just because again, I’ve just had miscarriages and I’ve had so much… so many fertility issues that I just was being very cautious. And then my doctor said… I’m like six and a half months so my doctor’s like, “Knock on wood, you’re in the clear.”
Beverly Hallberg:
And what is it like being in the public eye and people having lots of opinions, you endure a lot of support from people, but you endure a lot of hate from people when you’re going through something like pregnancy and you’ve been also public about the miscarriages as you just shared there. What is it like having such personal things on display when people do have horrible things that they say at times?
Meghan McCain:
I try and block out the negative as much as possible. I’m still human and it can bother me, but I try and really look at the positive things that I get to talk and give my opinion for a living, which is so amazing when you think about all the really difficult jobs people have to do, like in physical spaces. I always think of pregnant women who have to do physical jobs, if they’re standing. One of my friends works in retail standing all day in retail or doing things that are more physically demanding. There’s a lot way worse jobs being pregnant than being a writer and a commentator. So I really try and focus on the positive. And at this point in my life, I’m going to be 38 in a week, my gosh in a week and a half, and I just feel like focusing on blessings is much better for me and focusing on positive than focusing on the negative.
And a lot of times people that are spewing hate, as cliche as it is, hurt people really do hurt people and I think that there’s a lot of people who are in a lot of pain, a lot of people that want to place blame on people for different things. The only time I get really upset is when it is another public woman because I do feel like for me, taking really cheap shots at women is something I really try to never do, especially at my age. But when people are negative and nasty that are also public figures that can bother me. But I have a really short attention span and in half hour I will have forgotten about it. So there are people I feuded with that I completely forgot that I had feuded with Billy Eichner until his movie came out. I was like, “Oh, I did that, I forgot about that.”
Beverly Hallberg:
And maybe there gets to this point where this becomes your day to day so it’s just easy to navigate it because it’s what you know, where if somebody does work in a different career and don’t normally share political opinions, if they happen to that one time and they get a really negative reaction, it’s hard to just know how to process that. But I guess, you’ve just… I mean, you saw your dad go through this growing up the daughter of John McCain and what he dealt with just being a public figure in politics and as high as he was in politics, you were around that. So do you just build tough skin because you saw it with your dad and you go through it yourself so it’s just another day, another negative comment is just another day?
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, I just really just try ignore it. He really was great about… he was always like, “F them,” which I know, I’m not going to swear in your podcast, but he was just like, “Who cares?” And he really never got… it was really hard to insult him. It was really hard for him to get upset or insult him. And I feel worse for younger women coming up in this industry where I had so hoped that we would be further along than we are now and you see nasty comments, I mean I feel really protective over some of the young conservative commentators coming up who I think are doing such amazing work.
I’m pushing 40, there’s a new crop of women coming up that are so compelling and interesting and I feel bad when they’re attacked because it’s the generational shift between almost 40 year olds and a 25 year old, we should have made more progress and those women shouldn’t be being attacked too. I just love Liz Wheeler and we’ve become friends and I really love her work and I think she’s a really important conservative voice and when I see people attacking her, that upsets me more than people attacking me, if that makes sense, because it’s harder to be in your twenties and have it than it is to be older. When I was younger it used to upset me a lot more, but not now.
Beverly Hallberg:
You get older and you deal with it and you’re like, “Ah, I’ll just talk to my friends and it’ll be fine. It’ll work itself out.” Like you said, you don’t even think about it after a while. But you bring up I think an important point which is talking about women and what women commentators deal with and something that has remained consistent from when… So I’m in my early forties, so when I was younger, when you were younger, is that women, whether it’s their political, a candidate or somebody who is a commentator like yourself, their looks are often critiqued as well. It’s not just what they say but it’s how much they weigh or their hair or the way that they look, that women in the spotlight I feel like have a much harder or many more hurdles to overcome because they don’t want you to be too pretty or if you’re not pretty enough they comment on that. Why do you think women have to deal with this so much?
Meghan McCain:
I think that there’s just still a lot of sexism, particularly towards conservative women in the media, which is again very depressing for us to be talking about as well. Obviously you have a podcast, you give your political opinion too, you know what happens, the easy target is always like “You’re ugly, you’re fat, you’re whatever,” and I think it’s hard for me to continue to watch because I just want better for the next generation of women and I also want, in my lifetime… I love women in power. I mean I love conservative women in power obviously cause I’m conservative and I would really… one of my dreams is to see a conservative woman president. I really hope in my lifetime I get to see it. I’m not… gender stuff as it is for most conservatives, it’s not like I ebb to that, but I’m a strong woman and I love strong conservative women as well and I would really love to see a strong conservative woman as president. But you look at just the attacks you’re seeing against Casey DeSantis.
I saw my husband sent me these tweets about her that were jumbled together and it was people talking about how her clothes look like a Hand Maid and talking about her body and her face, and she just recently went through cancer treatment, and I really do feel like if things like this were said about a Democrat or a liberal woman, there’d be a much different reaction in the media. And that’s the hypocrisy and the BS that I have always been particularly angered by. And you see a lot of so-called feminists who have no problem trashing Republican women because we’re not considered real women. We’re considered heretics to our gender and heretics to our sexuality and heretics to politics. And there’s a totally different standard for the way we’re spoken about the way people are covered in the media, the way female politicians are covered and I just think, again, I think if the things that were recently said about Nikki Haley and women like that, I just think there would be a totally different reaction if it was being said about a liberal woman.
Beverly Hallberg:
And I just want to touch briefly on your time at The View, because that’s what you did, you would go on and share conservative opinions, just curious what the prep was like on a day-to-day basis for that show and not just the content and what you wanted to talk about, but the emotional preparation knowing that you were more often than not going to be the only one with that particular perspective and that there would be a lot of negative feedback, not just on set but probably how you were treated in the green room as well.
Meghan McCain:
I think for me it was a really weird cultural shift because I had gone from working at Fox, I co-hosted a show called Out Numbered that’s still on with Harris Faulkner, which was a really warm bubble because Harris is a really supportive woman and was really easy to work with, I mean one of the easiest people I’ve ever worked with in my life, and I still have a ton of very close friendships with other female contributors and hosts at Fox and that are still people I text every day, people I love and really are very sacred people in my life. So I went from this environment that was this cozy womb of friends and support and we’re conservative women supporting each other and we would get champagne on the weekends and just hang out and it was so fun.
And then going to an environment where just being conservative, you’re automatically on the outs. And the second week I worked there, I think it was actually 10 days in, there was a nasty article written about me in a tabloid that said, and again I’m going to paraphrase, but it was like “Meghan McCain is an ice princess, the cast and crew is shocked how icy she is and she’s like Elsa from Frozen.” And I remember being like first of all, I’ve been here five seconds and second of all I’m not someone that’s going to be best friends with anyone the first second I meet them. I take time to warm up and I didn’t think that I was joining a sorority, I thought I was joining a show to do work.
And so it was from the get go, it felt like a definite separation. It felt like I wasn’t… And I did make friends and have relationships there that are honest and real, not the same as the ones that I had at Fox. So it was difficult because you’re just an outsider. But I think that’s any conservative in mainstream media. I mean, any conservative commentator or host anywhere except Fox, you’re treated like a pariah basically. And I’ve worked at all these places so I can say that from my experience. So I hope it has changed since I left. I always hope for change in the better, but it was more important to me to be true to myself and my ideals and my morals and my politics than it was to be liked. And that was my choice. And it is a controversial one.
Beverly Hallberg:
And you work there while also having your first daughter, Liberty. As you just mentioned, you’re pregnant with your second daughter. What do you make of this discussion that women can have at all? Do you feel like they can or is it you can have it all but just at different times? How have you navigated juggling work and motherhood?
Meghan McCain:
Well I hate women having it all comments because sometimes I feel like if you can have it all it’s because you can afford to have childcare or have people at home or a family unit that is there to help you raise your children or take care of your children. For me, my career, I can never really decide if it was like COVID, me just coming to an end and what I felt like I could emotionally and mentally withstand working at The View and having a child all happened at the same time, but I definitely have taken a step back from obviously being on camera. I still write a column twice a week and I’ve had a lot of different offers to do television work again and I really love being able to get up in the morning and make my daughter breakfast and be there when she is… take her to playground and things like that.
And I have found deep fulfillment in motherhood that I never thought I would. I didn’t even know if I wanted to have kids. I don’t know if you have kids, but for me it’s just been this paradigm shift in the way that I view the world and I’m obsessed with her. I’m obsessed with being a mom. I love it. And again, I didn’t even know if I wanted kids for a really long time and it was a really hard decision when my husband, Ben, and I finally decided to have kids. It was not easy. I struggled a lot of back and forth and I didn’t think that motherhood… I didn’t feel like I fit into these like mommy Pinterest ideals of motherhood because I’m really tough and I’m not naturally maternal, I don’t think or I didn’t think until I had her. And then all the cliches are also true for a reason. It’s like the first second she was born I was like, “This is the greatest…”
Felt like… I’ve never done drugs but the only way I could imagine is what taking ecstasy I’ve been told feels like, it was just this euphoric, “This is the most amazing moment of my entire life,” and I love it and I wish I had had seven but I’m older and I didn’t meet Ben until I was like 32, or I was 31, I don’t remember. But it’s wonderful. But I don’t think that we should tell people that it’s easy because it’s not, it’s also the most difficult thing I’ve ever done, and I don’t think when… I actually, there’s a line that says “Women can have it all but they can’t have it all at once,” and I actually agree with that. I think that motherhood will kick your ass no matter who you are and it impacts everything and if you don’t have the right kind of support system, it can really have an intense impact. It doesn’t mean don’t do it, it just means it’s more complicated and it’s just shifted my priorities. Again, something I never thought would happen but it did.
Beverly Hallberg:
Yeah. I’m not a mom. I did recently get married a year ago, so I left DC during COVID. I think everybody went through this different phase of looking at their life and saying, “What do I want to do?” I moved closer to my parents where they retired in South Carolina and then met my husband. So I got married at 41. We’re seeing whether or not we can have kids, but it really was this huge shift and I don’t know if it was my age because you’ve had your career and you’ve done it and I knew I still wanted to continue it, which I am. But I knew I didn’t want the same rigor, the way over 40 hours a week, work was pretty much my priority and it’s been really, really sweet shifting to focusing on a husband, focusing on parents.
But sometimes I do struggle a little bit with the guilt like, “Oh I should be doing more. I’m not doing enough.” Or “Oh, maybe I should be writing a book. Maybe I should be doing this.” Do you all struggle with the guilt? Because when you did live that life that was so hectic with work to taking time to slow down and make breakfast for your daughter, it’s a joy, but do you have that internal battle sometimes?
Meghan McCain:
Oh yeah. I feel guilty about it all the time.
Beverly Hallberg:
Yeah.
Meghan McCain:
Like all the time. And the thing about I think any choice, like the one you made and congratulations on-
Beverly Hallberg:
Thank you.
Meghan McCain:
… getting married, obviously, there’s no… nothing’s easy. Being single isn’t easy. Being married isn’t easy. Wanting to have kids and not having kids is not easy. Not wanting to have kids isn’t easy, having kids isn’t easy. Everything is a challenge and I certainly feel this guilt of… I don’t believe in the concept of lean in because I think Cheryl Sandberg was wrong about so many things, but this lean in, if you’re not a girl boss, you’re not accomplishing anything. I certainly feel that way. I certainly feel like there’s no right answer. And I know friends of mine who are still really ball busting and hosting every day and things like that, they feel guilt that they’re not around their kids as much.
And again, I think it’s whatever you’re doing, you’re damned if you do, damned if you don’t. And that’s very complicated and hard. I’m really just now considering some of the things that I’ve been offered recently because I feel like I’m more ready. And also I feel like I have more to say. After I left The View, I felt like there was such an intense reaction to me, positive and negative, that was so much that… and people just on all sides projected so much onto me that I just needed a beat to breathe and re-find myself as stupid as that may sound, but just get to a place where I felt like I was just more even keeled because going in to get screamed at every day is a weird job to do for four years.
Beverly Hallberg:
Now your husband, you’ve mentioned Ben, Ben Domenech, he works in politics, people see him on Fox News, he’s a contributor for Fox News, he’s also editor at large at The Spectator World. So he’s somebody who has lots of opinions on politics. Do you guys discuss your political views? I’m sure that they mostly overlap, but when you disagree, is it just something you drop or do you actually debate it?
Meghan McCain:
When Ben and I first met, we met on Twitter, which is so ridiculous, but I saw him on Bill Maher and I followed him on Twitter because my friend and I were watching him and she was like, “He’s cute, follow him.” And I did and then he DMed me and we ended up dating and blah blah blah. But I thought he was way too conservative for me. When I first was reading about him, I was like, “This guy is a true on the right, full blown. He has a lot more credibility in this space than I do. Really intense.” And I didn’t know how we would get along and I had really predominantly dated liberal men up until that point just because I lived in New York and LA and there really aren’t that many conservatives, at least like that I met, living there.
And when we first started dating, I really enjoyed just having someone to talk about politics in the deep way that he knew. And he actually started working in politics at a really young age. He was 20, he was recruited to be a researcher for the Bush White House when he was 20. So we have this connection of being exposed to politics at a very young age. And we agree on, I would say like 60%. Being parents has made me agree with him a lot more on just parenting stuff. But we certainly disagree on many things and we can have respectful debates and once in a while we fight. We’re not perfect. And yeah, I mean I’m trying to think. The most heated stuff is weird stuff.
We really disagree on the Iraq war, it’s like wonky stuff like that. But yeah, I really like… One of my favorite things, especially during COVID, which really challenged our marriage because there was a certain point where I was like, “I have to talk to a woman in real life. I can’t just talk to you forever. I have to talk to one of my girlfriends in person.” But was that we had so much to talk about and it’s always the baseline of our relationship that we have the exact same interests. So that’s great, but we certainly fight about. It’s not crazy, but we have normal fights about politics like anybody else. But the older I get, the more I am aligned with him, as cliche as that sounds.
Beverly Hallberg:
Well it’s also probably really nice to have somebody who understands aspects of your work, understands what it’s like going on TV, understands what it’s like creating talking points, dealing with haters, just to have somebody who can empathize with you and not sympathize is probably a nice thing to have.
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, I really… it’s funny because he works for Fox and The Spectator as you said, and seeing him, it’s funny to see him on TV as funny… I mean, for a while it was me so much and now-
Beverly Hallberg:
Do you critique him? Do tell him if he…
Meghan McCain:
I do. Yes I do. Yeah, of course. But he does a good job so I can’t be like… But it’s just… Yeah, I mean, I don’t know. It’s weird. I was actually talking to him last night, I just can’t believe how long we’ve been together and how many incarnations of my life we’ve been together, and really I feel lucky that again, even in really hard times we have this… I can remember one time getting in a very big fight with him and then some breaking news broke and I was like, “I know we’re fighting but I really need to talk to you about…” I don’t remember what it was now, but it was something big and he was like, “Okay, this is what…”
So I just always want to talk to him about news stories. Right before I came on with you, I was texting with him about, there’s a video of John… MSNBC anchor who interviewed John Fetterman and said that he couldn’t… she said that he had a hard time communicating before the interview with her. So I was texting him that asking, I was like, “This seems absolutely crazy, but there you go.” So stuff like that we text every day about, when we’re not together, about new stuff.
Beverly Hallberg:
Well I want to take a brief moment to talk to you, our listeners. You may know that Independent Women’s Forum is the leading national women’s organization dedicated to enhancing people’s freedom, opportunities and wellbeing. But did you know that we are also here to bring you, women and men, on the go the news? You can listen to our High Noon podcast, an intellectual download featuring conversations that make free society possible. Hear guests like Ben Shapiro and Dave Rubin discuss the most controversial subjects of the day. Or join us for happy hour with At The Bar where hosts Inez Stepman and Jennifer Braceras chat on the latest issues at the intersection of law, politics and culture. You can listen to past episodes at iwf.org or search for High Noon or At The Bar in your favorite podcast app.
And Meghan, I want to switch just from the family discussion, some about the work life balance discussion, and get a little bit into politics. So your new gig, you mentioned you do two columns a week, is writing for the Daily Mail. I’ve enjoyed them. I especially enjoy your commentary on Meghan Markle. I have similar viewpoints-
Meghan McCain:
Can’t stand her.
Beverly Hallberg:
… about her and her celebration of her own victimhood, or so-called victimhood, and how she perpetuates that in her life. But it’s been really interesting to see this side of you and to have your political opinion, not just on pop culture stuff, but also politics of the day. I think we’re in a really interesting time for Republicans. What do you make of the conservative party? What do you make of the Republican party, or I should say the conservative movement, right now? It seems to really be trying to figure out what it is.
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, I think it’s still fractured. I think Trump is still the leader of the party and I think there’s still a lot of fracturing happen, but any time I feel like there’s some issue or political moment that I’m just totally against what’s happening, in the Republican party, inevitably something happens on the left that I find even more extreme and intense and things I can’t agree with or get behind. I really hope, I mean for me personally, I really hope that the nominee isn’t Trump just because… I was obviously not a supporter of his and obviously don’t continue to be, but I really hope there’s someone that we can all get behind that makes this next election, for me, just more unifying and easier for me to vote for. I have a few favorites already and I just… I really have… I’m so hopeful for the future, for this next generation of Republican leaders.
And I think there’s just so few on the left and there’s such an amazing group of choices on the right and I agree it’s a very interesting moment. I, like everybody, I’m waiting at bated breath for the midterms to come to see what happens, especially my home state of Arizona has two really hotly contested races in the governorship and the Senate and I’m really fascinated what’s going to happen cause Arizona’s kind of a purple state. But yeah, I mean think the culture war issues are the issues, for me, of the day right now and the economy, obviously. But for me, I think it’s the combination of becoming a mom, COVID, being petrified. I technically… I don’t live in DC, I live in Virginia right outside DC, but just the difference between having a governor like Youngkin and then a governor like Muriel Bowser, you literally in COVID could see, and he wasn’t until Youngkin became governor, but you could literally see tangible daily life things that was a difference between me driving to DC and having to wear a mask and then being in Virginia and not.
And the different ways that different pop political parties govern. And it really reinforced what I believe and why I believe it. So I will never, as long as I have the power over my life to, I can’t ever live in a blue state again if it’s possible. Certainly things happen, you can’t control everything. But I can’t move back to New York City. I just can’t. And I lived there for a really long time and I don’t think I could live in Los Angeles again. And again, it’s like things are really small and then things are really, really big. And I think COVID for all of us really showed you what you believe and why you believe it. And a lot of people came to our side as a result of it. I know a lot of parents in particular, cause everything happened with schools and unions and teachers unions and I think it’s a really, really, really interesting time. That’s a long winded answer.
Beverly Hallberg:
No, no, it makes sense. And I grew up in California, so near San Francisco, so obviously very, very liberal and then lived in DC for 20 years. It was kind of funny when I moved to South Carolina, my neighbors were all worried about me moving in cause I had DC plates and then they met me and they’re like, “Okay, you’re okay. It’s all right.” But I never thought I would live outside of DC or out of a large city, but COVID changed everything for me and it showed why federalism is so important. So I’m similar to you, it’s got to be a state that allows for freedoms and people to decide for themselves because there’s such a stark contrast these days, and that contrast wasn’t there when I was growing up, not to the extent it is today. It just seems to really have grown further apart and so when you talk to people and you get kind of a feel for where Americans are, do you think that the liberals have gone far too progressive for even the average independent?
Meghan McCain:
I do, and I think that there’s data that backs that up. I’m particularly fascinated by Hispanic voters coming over to the right, fleeing the Democrat party. I’m fascinated that even though there’s, again, you don’t have to take my word for it, even though you can, but there’s data and polling that shows that Latinx goes over like a lead balloon with Hispanic voters and yet progressives still continue to use it all the time. I don’t understand that. Again, other than I think it’s a ridiculous term. I also think that if polling is showing that people are actually insulted by it, why do you continue using it? And I find so many… and again, there’s people on the left that I still like, I don’t like to be so tribal where it’s like, “If you’re a Democrat, I don’t like you and I won’t support you.” But there’s just so many people who have gone so crazy and gotten so progressive and I don’t find it rational, logical, or reasonable in the application of real life. There are so many things where it’s just like what you are asking is not realistic for people.
And a great example, every single time Mayor Pete says, “People just need to buy electric cars.” Electric cars cost like $70,000, $80,000, they’re very expensive cars. The idea that you’re going to tell an average American that the answer to their problems is getting rid of their whatever F-150 and buying electric car is just not reasonable and you’re clearly not living in any kind of reality that I am. And again, I think it sounds really good though on MSNBC when you’re talking about climate change to just say that. So I find so many things of what so many progressive politicians say on the left just unreasonable and not based in logic and more virtue signaling than actually governing or talking in the way that I think average Americans respond to and live by. And we’re all seeing the data coming out and the predictions about what’s going to happen with the economy and the housing market in the next few months and the next year and it’s really daunting and it’s really overwhelming. And I think Americans understand that the answer to every problem can’t simply be write a check, and that is the answer to every single problem I hear from a Democrat politician and look at the economic ramifications we’re seeing already.
Beverly Hallberg:
And just a final question I want to talk to you about is about cancel culture in general and I’ve wondered if the tide is shifting a little bit on cancel culture and that is because so many people have been canceled, so many labels have been put on people. Does it get to a point where the labels have lost their meaning, being canceled has lost its meaning because it’s not used for very egregious, very rare individuals or circumstances, it’s used so often it doesn’t hold the same weight. And so my hope is that maybe where the pendulum is swinging back, where cancel culture doesn’t hold the same weight and people feel more free to say what they think. Any thoughts on cancel culture and maybe whether or not COVID, which impacted everybody really changed things for people who are willing to speak out on let’s say masking, or their kids in school, things like that?
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, I think cancel culture, it’s been really interesting to have worked in mainstream media during the Me Too movement and then obviously the height of cancel culture, which I agree with you, I think is shifting. And for me the biggest signal that it was shifting was actually seeing Netflix stand by Dave Chappelle and not cancel his special when everyone was protesting to get it taken off of Netflix. And Netflix executives doubled down and said, “We’re paying him to make comedy. This is comedy. Comedy is controversial in the end.” There are certain people that I don’t want to give my money or attention to because I find them insulting or incendiary and I think it’s okay to have the public decide if you want to support. If people want to boycott and not give money, that’s fine. The problem I have is when it’s just a few executives in a small room making a decision based off Twitter audiences. I do think it’s shifting. And I think you’re seeing a lot of people…
This is very pop culture, whatever, so just bear with me, but there was a show called Vanderpump Rules and two of the cast members were canceled and taken off the show and lost their podcast and all their deal. And there’s a woman named Stassi Schroeder, who I was always a fan of, who recently just relaunched her podcast after releasing a book and I guess feels safe to make a podcast again or feels like there’s an audience. So I think just seeing things like that, people who had previously been canceled sort of coming back out. Louise Kay is on tour again. I think that I agree with you that the moment is sort of shifting and I think again, cancel culture’s really tricky. I don’t ever want to listen to a Kanye song again and I don’t like him and that’s my choice, but if the American public wants to still give him money, that’s also their choice. And I prefer to have the consumer and the American public make these choices for who they want to support with their money and their time and their attention rather than, again, corporate overlords… Excuse me.
Beverly Hallberg:
Yeah. And before we go, just want to let everybody know as well that you do have a memoir that you wrote called “Bad Republican,” so people should get it. My final question to you is do you still consider yourself a bad Republican?
Meghan McCain:
It’s so funny that title came from my agent who said, “You’re a bad Republican in every room that I try and sell you in,” or whatever. He’s like, “On The View, being the one Republican was bad,” and then when I was in more conservative spaces for, I think this has actually kind of shifted, but for a while it was like, “She’s not conservative enough, she’s a RINO, blah, blah blah.” So it was meant to be a play on words I think. But I still consider myself a bad Republican. I mean only because I’m contrarian. It’s everyone else’s choice. Again, I think that the world’s really shifting and I think people my age and younger in particular, I really enjoy seeing sort of how open minded they are to different kinds of voices speaking to them.
I think especially people in their twenties really understand that there can be a lot of different men and women they can listen to and listen to different podcasts, watch different people on different shows, whatever, and make their own decisions and different pieces of things. So I find the purity test not to be as strong as it once was. So that’s a really nice place I think for all of us to be. And I know even for me, I listen and consume so many different things and I don’t agree with everyone on any of it at all. So I don’t know, I just like interesting people. I like fun people and interesting people and I like entertaining people and I don’t know. I try not to let one thing dictate what I choose one way or the other.
Beverly Hallberg:
And one of the reasons, there are many, but one of the reasons why I think you’ve been so successful in something that I’ve admired about you is that you have very clear opinions and you stay with them regardless of what’s popular. And so I really respect that and I think people who do… I mean be willing to adapt when you learn, but people who stay true to their opinions and aren’t afraid to speak up do see success when they do so. So just have appreciated your commentary over the years and you coming on the podcast today. So Meghan McCain, author of “Bad Republican” and do check out her columns at the Daily Mail. She has a lot that she said about Kanye this week, so you should go and read some of her articles. But thank you so much for your time today. We appreciate it.
Meghan McCain:
Yeah, and thank you so much. Like I said, I love IWF and Inez Stepman’s a very good friend of mine. Just listen to her podcast too. She’s so brilliant, brilliant, so brilliant writer and just an interesting person all the way around. But I don’t understand why she’s living in New York though.
Beverly Hallberg:
Get her to move back to DC. We’ll see. Well, we so appreciate that and we appreciate all of you for joining us today. Do want to let you know before you go, the Independent Women’s Forum does rely on the generosity of supporters like you and investment in IWF fuels our efforts to enhance freedom, opportunity and wellbeing for all Americans. So please consider making a small donation to IWF by visiting iwf.org/donate. Last, if you enjoyed this episode of She Thinks, do leave us a rating or a review. It does help and we’d love it if you shared this episode with your friends so they can know where they can find more She Thinks. From all of us here at IWF, thanks for watching.
Meghan McCain:
Thank you so much.
