Senator Tim Scott joins Students Over Systems to discuss how education can unlock a person’s potential and future. Senator Scott shares his belief that parents should be given access to a range of educational options, so their children have a better chance at succeeding in life. We also discuss his advocacy for federal education freedom options, including the Charter School Program and the portability of federal funds.
TRANSCRIPT
Ginny Gentles:
Today on Students Over Systems, we’re celebrating Keeping the National School Choice Week celebration going. Senator Tim Scott shares why he advocates for Education Freedom and his vision for K-12 education.
Welcome to Students Over Systems. I’m your host, Ginny Gentles. This is a podcast that celebrates education freedom. At Students Over Systems, we talk with the creators, advocates, and beneficiaries of education freedom. And on today’s episode we talk with Senator Tim Scott, who is a United States Senator from the great state of South Carolina. Senator Scott grew up in a poor, single parent household in North Charleston, South Carolina. He graduated from Charleston Southern University and eventually built his own successful small business. He served in the Charleston County Council, the South Carolina House of Representatives, the US House of Representatives, and since 2013, the United States Senate. Senator Scott is the co-founder of the Congressional School Choice Caucus and an incredible champion for education freedom.
Senator Scott, thank you so much for joining us on Students Over Systems.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Thank you, Ginny. Thank you for having me. I look forward to our conversation.
Ginny Gentles:
Well, I’m really excited to be talking with you about school choice, about education freedom, and about a statement that I hear you make, and that is, that education is the closest thing to magic in America. What do you mean by that?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, we all look for that secret sauce to make your life really, really powerful and positive and prosperous. And to me, education is that panacea. If there’s a way for us to design a formula that works for people, no matter whether you’re rich or poor, black or white, whether you’re in the upper echelons or you’re starting at the bottom of the ladder, the truth is the quality of your education will be the key to unlocking the most amazing future you’ve ever dreamed of. And that’s good news. You’re no longer relegated to the lower levels because of the color of your skin or because of your parent’s income. You can choose the quality of your future by having a parent choose the quality of your education.
Ginny Gentles:
Absolutely. Well, before we delve into the specifics of education policy, let’s talk a little bit about your personal K-12 education experience. What was school like for you?
Sen. Tim Scott:
I went to four different elementary schools by the 4th grade. There’s a transient nature in poverty that is a powerful headwind for so many single mothers like the one that raised me. My mom worked 16 hours a day as a nurse’s aid, changing bedpans and rolling patients. Her picture of my future was to make sure that I was equipped with the right resources, and education was a part of that resourcing. Once that happened, my future blossomed. Until that happened, I kind of stumbled along the way. It’s one of the reasons why I struggled in high school because I didn’t see really a bright future. Once I understood that power and tomorrow gives me motivation today, I was able to dig in and for my sophomore year on, I did really well and ended up on the right side of the tracks. I say that because my freshman year, eh, didn’t do so well.
Ginny Gentles:
I’ve heard about that freshman year. There was a civics class that gave you a hard time, right?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Yeah. The study of government was not my strong suit, and so failing civics. I’m not bilingual, but bi-ignorant because I failed both Spanish and English. I was not a good student, but my teacher taught me a very valuable lesson, Ginny. She said, “I’m going to grade you based on your performance, not your potential.” I was trying to convince her, “Trust me, my potential’s unlimited.” She was like, “Son, do the work first. We’ll get to your potential later.” So it was a really good lesson. Better to learn it as a freshman in high school than later in life.
Ginny Gentles:
Well, Senator Scott, you often say that when it comes to education, when parents have a choice, students have a chance.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Yes.
Ginny Gentles:
What kind of choice are you talking about there?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, when I say that, what I mean is parents need a cafeteria, cafeteria of options. She needs to be able to choose between a public school, a public charter school, a private school, a religious school like a Catholic school, homeschool, virtual school. We need to give her as many options as possible. And when we do that, the kids will have a better chance at succeeding at life. So parents, choice. Kids, chance. Some formulas are really simple, and this is one of the more simple ones.
Ginny Gentles:
I think it’s helpful to kind of cut through the myths and the policy discussions and just the outright lies out there and make it really clear. When parents have a choice, students have a chance.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Absolutely.
Ginny Gentles:
And you are very well acquainted with the situation that students can get themselves into when they don’t have a chance, when they feel hopeless. So I feel like when I hear you talk about this issue, you are talking about school choice, providing hope, just infusing joy and hope that freedom offers. Have you seen this firsthand? I know that you’re quite good about going to visit schools in Charleston and beyond.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, Ginny, every month I try. When school was in, I tried to be in a different school every month. This past Friday I had an opportunity to visit a school in Charleston. This school was a fantastic school. Actually the tuition was indexed to the income, so there is no barrier to getting into this school based on your income. I thought that was wonderful. Also, seeing the bright faces and knowing what they’re learning as kindergartners and 1st grade, I was excited about their future. But number two, I thought about working single mothers who want a safe place for their kids to go, but also a place where the education is top tier. This school provided, a charter school, provided their kids with top tier education. That means they’re going to have a top tier life.
I think we misunderstand the power of hope and the process of choosing your schools. One of the things if you really want to understand school choice from a negative perspective, 70% of those incarcerated could only read at a 4th grade level. Functional illiteracy is the reality in our populations that are incarcerated around the country. Changing that one outcome I think would lower the incarcerated population and increase those experiencing human flourishing at the very best, at the highest levels.
Ginny Gentles:
Well, historically, school choice programs have been focused on serving low income kids, kids who were relegated to residentially assigned failing government schools. So those were the students who were potentially on a school to prison pipeline pathway because they were not learning how to read. And so, now we have education options in numerous states due to that initial focus on serving low income kids. There are 45 states with charter school laws, over 30 states with private school choice programs, and then some districts offer open enrollment, magnet schools with specialized programs. And then there are newer programs now like micro schools and learning pods. With that initial focus on serving low income kids, what sort of impact have you seen? Have you been able to look into options and how they’ve benefited those low income populations?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Absolutely. When you think about the Title 1 schools throughout America, Title 1 basically means underperforming, typically poor schools largely, unfortunately, and majority minority areas. Those schools are underperforming. Those kids seem to be in that pipeline to incarceration or at the very least a lower level of income and lifestyle. So with school choice being embedded in some of those areas, in Charleston specifically, we have the Meeting Street Academy. It’s a private school that has a tuition very affordable for working single mothers. These kids are outperforming all the other Title 1 schools in their area so much so that Charleston County gave this program to public schools to see if they could perform as well. Good news is within three years those schools and those kids are in the top 20% countrywide. Fantastic news. There’s the Success Academy in New York City, 87% African-American and Hispanic. Those kids actually outperform majority kids in New York City. It just says equipped with the right schools with the right apparatus, of love, hope, and a whole lot of hard work. Katy, bar the door or the sky’s the limit.
Ginny Gentles:
And so those individual students are benefiting. The kids across the schools that you’re talking about are benefiting. But studies have shown, and I think there are 26 studies now including a recent one out of Ohio, that students in the nearby public schools are benefiting too. So this is the idea of a rising tide lifts all-
Sen. Tim Scott:
Lifts all boats.
Ginny Gentles:
… all boats. I always get the sense that that’s your vision too. You’re not about saving one individual child, you really want systemic change. You want to see that all children to have that hope and that freedom and a different and brighter future. So what do you think needs to happen to expand these options so that all students are going to benefit?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, Ginny, let me hit that point before we move on to the next point because I think what you said is so important and so powerful. A monopoly typically lowers the quality and increases the cost. What you’re talking about is in proximity to a school choice program, the public schools get better because competition increases the results and reduces the price. So that’s a big key. Second, our nation benefits when all of our kids have quality education. So the future of America depends on highly educated, skilled students who become high functioning adults in the greatest nation on God’s green earth. And so the outcome is going to be predicated by the input. This is a simple law that if we understand and embrace it, we get the results that are in the best interest of the child, of the schools, and of our nation.
Ginny Gentles:
Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So what do we do to expand these options? There are so many barriers that have been put in the way of these programs, of these children. So even though we’ve been doing this for 30 years, the first private school choice program was created in Milwaukee, Wisconsin over 30 years ago, and charter schools have been around for decades, there’s still these barriers. What do we need to do to push through those?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, some of the legislation I’ve been working on, I first visited Milwaukee in 2009 to understand and appreciate the significant impact that school choice was having on some of the poorest kids in the state of Wisconsin. One of the things I realized was coming out of it is we needed more programs around the country to address more of the challenges that we see. And so lately, Senator Cassidy and I have sponsored and co-sponsored legislation that would provide more resources to parents that have more options. As an example, you may be able to figure out the tuition, but can you have the transportation to get the child there? The more flexibility we embed in legislation that allows for parents to have the use of the money for enrollment or for transportation, the better off the kid will be. So we’re working on programs, legislation that creates more resources but makes those resources flexible for the parents to decide what’s the best use of those dollars.
Ginny Gentles:
I love that idea of flexibility and acknowledging the reality. This isn’t just about one thing, tuition. There are multiple educational expenses that parents encounter. It could be tuition, that student might also need therapies. They might need a uniform. As you mentioned, transportation.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Absolutely.
Ginny Gentles:
And textbooks. There are numerous educational expenses. And so we’re seeing new programs like education savings accounts come on the scene that acknowledge that reality. It’s not just about a voucher or to cover tuition. There are a range of expenses. And then there are a range of options. Parents might want to explore different options, not just the participating private schools in a particular program.
I would also say that ensuring that a greater percentage of the funding follows the child, you’ve been in the school choice world for a long time I feel like. Early on we were always bragging that the charter schools or the different options could educate the child for less. Well, maybe when the public school is spending something like $30,000 per child in a city and you’re saying, “I’ll take a voucher for $6,000,” that’s not in the best interest of the child. So I appreciate what you’re doing to look into federal funding options that can also follow the children in addition to state dollars following the child.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Exactly.
Ginny Gentles:
Yeah. Let’s talk about-
Sen. Tim Scott:
And Ginny, to your point though, by the way, Title I dollars, the bulk of the money that comes for poor kids living in poor zip codes. As you said, the beginning of school choice was focused on those poorer kids and Title 1 schools. Making those dollars backpackable would be helpful. Backpacking your Title II dollars for a special needs kids is really important as well. However, making school choice and competition a part of the overall environment and education is really good for the global competition that we are today, either mediocre or frankly losing in the education space.
Ginny Gentles:
Right. We do have to not pause and pat ourselves on the back when it comes to looking at international rankings. It’s embarrassing.
Sen. Tim Scott:
It’s terrible.
Ginny Gentles:
A lot of those rankings were from before the COVID era when this learning loss crisis just exploded across our country.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Yes.
Ginny Gentles:
I wanted to talk about your involvement in the Charter School Program. You’re a huge champion for creating and expanding education options for students. Historically, charter schools have been focused on serving low income students. They serve other students as well. And the Charter School Program, the federal startup money that’s provided, allows those charter schools to get them funds that they need to get going and then to expand proven models. But the Biden administration doesn’t like that funding. Tell us about your work with protecting the Charter School Program.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Yeah. I’ve been very frustrated with this administration and their inability to understand basic math. One out of four, nearly one out of four high performing high schools is a charter school. This administration wants to shut down charter schools and starve them of the resources necessary to have parents given the choice and the kids given that very important chance. We are pushing back on the Biden administration through letters, through conferences, and through building a team. Thankfully, governors around the country including my home state of South Carolina, Governor Kim Reynolds in Iowa, have done a fantastic job of building out new systems around choice. This administration is literally crippling charter schools, which means that they are jeopardizing the future of the kids in these schools. We deserve better as Americans, and so we have to fight tooth and nail to make sure we get it.
Ginny Gentles:
Well, thank you so much for your advocacy for that particular program and for expanding education options. I have to say, I’ve been really fortunate over the years. I’m often in the back of the room when we bring a group of young people to come talk to you, and these are young people who’ve benefited from school choice programs, and I’ve gotten to listen to you talk. I’ve also had the opportunity to hear you speak at numerous events and conferences. Every time you speak about this topic, you honor your mother in such a beautiful and loving way. Could you talk a little bit about her role in your life and how she’s influenced your views on this topic? On education freedom.
Sen. Tim Scott:
My mother struggled when she was a student in high school and she went to work after she got married. And then when they got divorced, I will say my mother worked 16 hours a day, as I said earlier, as a nurse’s aid. She taught me that there is dignity in all work. She taught me to have a work ethic. It’s because of her that I’m sitting here with you today. More importantly, she always taught me, along with my grandfather, that readers are leaders. And so they continued to push me in the direction of taking individual responsibility for how well I did in the classroom. I couldn’t choose my school, but I could choose my performance in school. And she would not allow me to fail. When I did poorly my freshman year, she made me pay for my summer school. That was a very important lesson at 13 to 14 years old.
And so my mother’s always been the person who has a PhD in common sense, and she used it on my behalf. I’m so thankful to have been raised by a powerful, positive woman who understood you have to encourage your child and sometimes you have to choose a different form of encouragement, and she did it all.
Ginny Gentles:
I love that. As we wrap up, Senator Scott, I’m wondering what school choice myth really bothers you the most and how do you respond to it?
Sen. Tim Scott:
Well, the biggest school choice myth that really gets under my skin is that we are anti-public schools. We’re not anti-public schools. Those of us in the movement, we’re anti-bad schools, we’re anti-underperforming schools, we’re anti-failing schools. We are pro-child, pro-education, and pro-the future of America. And so that one thing gets under my skin because it is just antithetical to what we believe and who we are.
Ginny Gentles:
Absolutely. Thank you so much, Senator Scott, for all that you’re doing as founder of the Congressional School Choice Caucus, as the leader of the Defense of the Charter School Program and the author of numerous pieces of legislation that ensure that funding follows students and that we’re funding students not systems. I’m so grateful for all that you do.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Thank you, ma’am. Thank you for having me today, Ginny. I look forward to seeing you sometime later.
Ginny Gentles:
Yes. We will continue our celebration of National School Choice Week at numerous events on Capitol Hill sponsored by you. So thank you for that too, Senator Scott.
Sen. Tim Scott:
Yes, ma’am.
Ginny Gentles:
We hope that listeners found today’s conversation informative and encouraging. If you enjoyed this episode of Students Over Systems, please consider leaving a review on your favorite podcast app. And don’t forget to share this episode with your friends. To learn more about the work of IWF’s Education Freedom Center, please visit iwf.org/efc. That’s iwf.org/efc. And we thank you for listening to Students Over Systems. Until next time, keep prioritizing students over systems.
