On this episode of The Bespoke Parenting Podcast, host Julie Gunlock talks to IWN’s Christy Narsi about her youngest child’s adoption story, the loss of her best friend, and how she adjusted to life as both a mom of two adult daughters and a two-year-old. Julie and Christy also discuss how parenting has changed and what has stayed the same.


TRANSCRIPT

Julie Gunlock:

Hey everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock, host of the Bespoke Parenting Hour. For those new to the program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves and most importantly, their kids. Today I’m speaking to Christy Narsi. She’s an Arizona mom of three daughters, and the chapter manager for the Independent Women’s Network. I hope you are all members of IWN. Prior to her work with IWN, Christy worked as an operations director for two of the fastest growing churches in America, and she serves on her local communities’ K-12 charter school. I think the board, I think that’s, oh, she’s the president of the charter school. So Christy, sorry about messing up that last line there. Thanks for joining us.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Julie Gunlock:

Well, it’s great to talk to you. And you’re the manager, the chapter manager of IWN. Before we get into that, tell us about IWN and your role there.

Christy Narsi:

Well, Independent Women’s Network is a network of women who are independent-minded in their thinking. And so we have chapters in states across the country and my role is to recruit and launch those chapters. And so yeah, it’s a pretty exciting organization.

Julie Gunlock:

Well, it is. And I think one thing that’s really great about IWN that… IWN, IWF, IWV, it’s, these are all sister organizations and we’re very policy heavy on the IWF side. IWF sponsors this podcast. But what’s so great about IWN is it is chapter focused and it’s about getting together face-to-face, finding community, find friends, find like-minded friends, but still using the resources of IWF. And this is one of the resources I think that’s out there for women who are kind of interested in how other women parent, how, their experiences with their own kids.

And that sort of leads to my first question, and this is, I don’t want to have a gotcha moment or surprise anyone, but I do love to ask these, this question and not really warn people that it’s coming. Don’t worry, I’m not going to ask you your dress size or anything, but I like to ask my guests if they employ a specific parenting style. Some don’t, some are like, look, I literally wing it. I get up every morning and I’m like, I don’t know what I’m going to be. But there are different parenting styles and actually this podcast is dedicated to getting away or breaking out of those parenting styles. I do a combination of parenting style, very, very much free range, but I have a couple other strategies. How would you describe your parenting?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, I mean, I focus mostly on reality parenting is kind of what I call it. So for me, it’s let reality be the teacher as much as possible. I’m not the one to swoop in and save my kids from all the consequences of their behavior. I feel like life can be the best teacher and I don’t always have to be the one drilling the consequence into them. If I just let it play out, sometimes that’s the best scenario. Obviously we’re going to keep our kids safe from dramatic consequences, but I really think that if I just let reality play out, most of the time they’re going to learn the lesson on their own. They’re going to own it, and then they’re going to course correct. So that’s kind of been my, effective for me.

Julie Gunlock:

That’s really smart. I think this kind of goes into my next question, which is reality parenting, free range parenting because I think there’s a lot of similarities between those two. You have to engage in bespoke parenting, you have to tailor your style of parenting to the kid. Which leads me to this sort of next inquiry. I mentioned that in the intro you are a mom of three girls. I’m the mom of three boys, and my kids are stair steps. They’re 12, 14, 16, and I think that’s what people think of, or maybe a little bit of an age gap, but not much. But you actually have a pretty dramatic age gap. What are the ages of your daughters?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, I do. So my daughters are, the oldest is going to be 24, is that right? Yeah, 23, something like that. What year are we in? Oh, she was born in 2000. So 23 this month, 22 in July, and then two years old.

Julie Gunlock:

Boop. Right, there you go. So 20 year difference. 21 year difference. And that strikes me as a major surprise moment, which happened, happens plenty of stories like that. But this wasn’t necessarily a surprise moment. Tell us about the circumstances under which this happened. This occurred, this happy surprise occurred.

Christy Narsi:

So unfortunately this occurred through some trauma is really kind of how it went down. My husband and I have been married for 25 years. We married the same year, 1997, as our best friends. Their names were Peter and Michelle, and Peter and Michelle never had any kids, Michelle longed to be a mom. We had our two daughters, like I said, in 2000 and 2001. And Michelle really just came along and helped me mother my kids, she was Auntie Chelle to my kids, and she would take them for Auntie Chelle Fridays and they would go out and they would have a good time and she would have sleepovers. And when they got older, they would play rock band all night. I mean, she was the one they would go to, especially in their preteen years when mom and daughter were not, you know when we were hitting heads and not getting along.

So she just really stepped into their lives, not just as my best friend, but also as their best friend. And so sadly, after Peter and Michelle had been married 21 years, Peter got into a pretty dark place and we lost him to suicide. And it wasn’t just Auntie Chelle, it was Uncle Peter. And so there was a lot of trying to figure out how to help my girls understand what was going on. We were trying to understand what was going on and everything that goes along with an unexpected suicide. And so fast forward a little bit, in 2021, we had sold our house. We renovated an RV, our kids were grown, they were adults, and we renovated an RV. We were literally living my husband and I, the RV life.

Julie Gunlock:

Really?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah. I think I’ve forgotten to tell you that.

Julie Gunlock:

Okay. Just noted. That’s a whole nother podcast because I’m fascinated, know that I secretly want to live in an RV and travel all over the world. I literally, I watch way too many of those Facebook reels. Right. So anyway, sorry. Sorry, I could get derailed so easily. Go on.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, no, you’re good. You’re good. So that same year, Michelle adopted a brand new baby girl right out of the hospital, and she became a first time mama at age 47.

Julie Gunlock:

Oh, wow.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah. And so she had done grief the way that we all should. She had gone to counseling for several years. She really gave herself the time to recover. And when Peter first passed away, I remember telling her, look, Michelle, this is not the end of your life. I want you to know this is also a beginning. And I really believe that at some point you’re going to be able to fulfill that dream to be a mama that you’ve always wanted to fulfill. And of course, at that moment, she’s looking at me with deer in the headlights. How could that happen? I’m in my 40s, whatever. But lo and behold, she got her baby girl. And so fast forward a few more months, we were in Texas for nine months. We’re in Arizona now, but we were in Texas for the first nine months, or for nine months out of the baby’s 12 months.

So she was a year old when we got the call from my youngest biological, so I have Madison and Halle. Halle called, she was on FaceTime. And it was one of those moments you never want to experience. It’s branded into my brain because she was crying at the depth that I have never seen her cry before. It was the heaving sobbing. And so immediately we’re thinking, okay, what’s wrong with your sister? What’s going on?

Julie Gunlock:

Right. What’s happened to you? Yeah. Yeah.

Christy Narsi:

And she just said, mom, Auntie Chelle’s dead. And it was like, what? What are you talking about? And sure enough, Michelle had taken an accidental toxic mix of medications and they stopped her heart and her breathing and she just didn’t wake up one day. And so the shock, okay, wasn’t just your best friend died, but we had agreed to be the guardians. Had anything happen to Michelle, of course we were, right? She helped us raise our kids. I mean, it was a no-brainer. Of course, it’s just a check. You never think it’s going to get cashed, especially when the baby’s one year old. So here we were, we had already raised our kids, we had already done our thing, and we’re doing the thing you wait to do when the kids are out, and whoa. So that’s how we have such a big age gap.

Julie Gunlock:

Well, it’s interesting to me because I think you just said it, you said, we were launching our kids. We were getting ready to have this empty nest. And then this happened. And the truth is that, you have a 24 year old or a 23 year old and 21 year old. At that age, I think that kids are still very much a part of their own families or their parents’ lives and they come home for holidays and stuff like that. And I assume your daughters are not yet married.

Christy Narsi:

Correct.

Julie Gunlock:

Because I feel like that’s really, talk about launching and empty nesting that is. But the bottom line is your girls were launching their own lives. What was it like talking to your daughters? I don’t know if your daughters knew that you were the guardians and that eventually this baby would come into your family and it would be a whole new parenting situation and a new sister. What was that like and what was their reaction?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, that’s a great question. The girls knew, in fact, they knew more than I knew, if that makes any sense, that we were the guardians. Because I kept saying in my shock, well, okay, did she write her will? Let’s make sure she really wrote that down. Because my girls are like, mom, you know. You know she was leaving you all of her assets, the baby-

Julie Gunlock:

I think there’s, there’s two ways of looking at it. There’s a legal way and then there’s like, what were the intentions of the mother? And so your daughters, and your shock, which makes sense because you have to deal with the legal issues. But your daughters were probably more like, this was her intention. So this is our baby. Yeah.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I mean, they never questioned it, although they were very concerned about me, obviously, and they kept saying, mom it’s okay, we’re going to step up. We love her, we love the baby. And I kept telling them you know what girls, no. If your dad and I make this decision, this is on us. And you don’t need to feel any, you should not feel any obligation outside of family, but it’s not your job to stop launching your life. And that’s just how we felt about it. And so we kind of had to help the girls reassess, you’re just starting out and you need to keep just starting out. We appreciate that you want to jump in, but we’ve got to make this decision on our own.

Julie Gunlock:

So, well, first of all, that’s so sweet because it’s almost like the perfect reaction from everyone. We’ll step up. You don’t have to. It’s like how you hope people react to these situations. But the bottom line is, okay, so let’s fast forward a little bit. You end up, this little girl comes into your home and you are now… so give us just a quick kind of update. So she now then comes into your home and you’re now mothering this. How old was she when she came?

Christy Narsi:

She was 14 months.

Julie Gunlock:

Oh gosh. It’s like the cutest, sweetest age. Oh my gosh. So 14 months. Now at this point, are you still in the RV?

Christy Narsi:

We had sold it. We ran back to Arizona. We just said, okay, we can’t do this. Life has just changed. Even if circumstances didn’t work out and we couldn’t step up, we knew for sure we needed to be there for our daughters because it was just too much grief. You know what I mean? So yeah. We were back.

Julie Gunlock:

So you sell the RV, you come home, she then comes into the house, you’ve made sort of a nursery, you’re starting to buy the you kid toys, all of this. I want to talk, because this is really fascinating to me. I actually do have a friend who had a child when she was 49, and she also had a child when she was 40. And boy, boy is it different. And when she was talking to me about it, I was like, well, they have so many gadgets now. I was acting like, I mean, she gave birth in 1870 or something, but she was like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, she’s like, it’s different for me physically. And she was talking about that.

So tell me a little bit about your, you had infants, two year olds, 20 years ago. Fast forward 20 years. Give me kind of a sense, I want to talk about the products later and how the culture is different later. Right now I’m asking specifically about you. How is it different for you? What were some of the challenges? What were some of the rewards? Do you feel calmer? Do you feel like you’re wiser? That’s what I’m interested in now.

Christy Narsi:

That is a great question. Initially, I’ll just be honest, I was very disconnected. It took me three at least months to get out of the shock. I’d always heard how people can have trauma and be stuck in shock. And I never really understood it. And now I get it. I was in total shock. It was one of those, what do I do today? And I just kept telling myself, do the next best thing, do the next right thing today.

Julie Gunlock:

I’m sorry, just to add on that, do you feel like it’s fuzzy because I’ve experienced, a little bit and the memories are a little fuzzy?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, yeah.

Julie Gunlock:

Yeah.

Christy Narsi:

A hundred percent. Yeah. Especially honestly, the memories of when my two were little, it was like, how do you do this again, do you change diapers. I haven’t changed a diaper in that long. And it’s funny you mentioned how your friends said the products are all different. I was literally going through her things and going, I don’t need this gadget. We didn’t have this back then. What do I need this stinking bottle warmer for? Take your bottle.

Julie Gunlock:

Right. It’s like someone went to the Williams Sonoma and bought every gadget possible, and you’re like, I can do this alone with a chef’s knife and a cutting board. Like I’m good. That’s interesting. But what was it like? I mean, I think at 14 months, I always call it, and you’re in the bend over phase where you’re making sure that they don’t fall down or you’re making sure they don’t throw themselves downstairs. I mean, that’s a really difficult, I will say that is a difficult age because it’s before reason starts to… and they’re like, these stairs look scary. I will not throw myself down them. Whereas a 14 month old would be like, let’s see how it goes. So what was that like because that you have to be attentive at 14 months.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, I mean, it was all in, I had to walk away from what I was doing work wise, and it was just every amount of attention I could give her. We had some challenges. One of those was that she really had no sleep regulation. That was just not part of her routine. And I don’t know about you, Julie, but I’m very, your kids need to learn how to sleep because 75% I think of the behavioral problems are curbed just by having a solid nap and a good nap.

Julie Gunlock:

And a somewhat normal schedule. I’m not one of these people who’s like, you have to have one, but some structure.

Christy Narsi:

Exactly some structure. And so I had this little one that kind of got to call the shots before on her own. That’s kind of how it worked. And I was like, okay, you and I are going to have a come to Jesus meeting because in our house, I tell you when you’re going to sleep. So I know that sounds a little extreme but-

Julie Gunlock:

No.

Christy Narsi:

To me that’s the way you did it. Because what you’re doing is you’re curbing potential problems. And if your child’s not getting regular rest, how do you know if they’re crying because they’re sick or they’re just mad, or they’re just angry? You just got to figure out the sleep schedule. And so that was the number one thing we worked on. And that really changed her whole demeanor. I mean, overnight this was a whole new kid.

Julie Gunlock:

Interesting.

Christy Narsi:

Very interesting. Because I had to go, okay, am I trusting my instinct or am I going to say, okay, she’s behaving this way because she’s had trauma. See, all of a sudden I’m in this whole new world of parenting a child of trauma. I’ve never done that. My kids were born into just the normal whatever. And so what in her is, oh, I’m tired and I’m mad and I just don’t want to do it. I’m a toddler and I’m exerting my will. I’m tired, or I’m in trauma and I don’t understand what’s going on in my life. So I just knew instinctively if we get sleep down, we’ll be able to figure everything else out.

Julie Gunlock:

Well, this is also clearly a child who’s also been through a lot and strangers are around her and people she doesn’t know. And everything’s unfamiliar from the smells to the taste, to the sounds to how things feel. And that’s important too, but you’re absolutely right that normalizing certain things so you can at least check things off and say, okay, it’s not a lack of. But also I think that most and I shouldn’t say most, but I think a lot of parents sort of instinctually understand that structure and regular routines do help calm a child. Giving them predictability, giving them a sense of normalcy is enormously soothing for young children. And I think today we see less and less of that from parents. And even though I am saying it’s bespoke parenting hour, and you should figure out the way to parent that’s best for your family.

I mean, look, if I really ask my son right now, what’s the best way I should parent? He would say, well, I would like to be on my games 24/7. I would like no bedtime. I would like to not have to open my door when I’m in my room. There’d be a whole bunch of rules that don’t apply. So that’s interesting. I also want to talk to you about the culture of parenting. I was in my mid 30s when I had my first child, and I finished at the end of my 30s, and I was up at the playground, and there were a lot of young moms, younger moms, much younger than me. And I found a sense of look, I think the parenting world’s always been judgey, but I found it even worse. It was suffocating for me.

And I don’t mean to be totally negative. I think there’s a lot more resources, and we know how children react to things now much more. But how do you find the culture of parenting today? Because I think when we started out, I don’t know, I feel like there maybe weren’t so many celebrity blogs and mommy blogs, and I mean, that’s a little bit new on the cultural scene. What do you feel? Is there more judgment? Do you feel less, do you feel more free to make your own decisions about parenting? What are your thoughts?

Christy Narsi:

That’s a really, really good question. When I had my bios all those years ago, the big controversy was do you put your kids on a sleep schedule or what was then called co-sleeping?

Julie Gunlock:

Right.

Christy Narsi:

Do you remember that? It was this big deal.

Julie Gunlock:

Yes, yes.

Christy Narsi:

And in my mind, I was like, and I hope I don’t offend anyone listening or even you, Julie, I don’t know how you did it, but in my mind, I was like, ain’t a child sleeping in my bed. I don’t know what you doing. Me and my husband, we have a good relationship. And that’s weird. So I’m like, you either have the focus on your child or you have it on your marriage. I don’t know what you’re doing. And then fast forward, now, I am having to talk with counselors and play therapists and CPS and all these different people involved that were never a part of my circle before. And they’re confirming, they’re like, co-sleeping is actually one of the leading causes of infant death.

To me, it’s just obvious. So I was even back then in my early 20s, I’m just trying to use common sense in raising this kid. So that was the big controversy. I was the one that was all out there being the mean mom, because I expected my child to learn how to put themselves to sleep, whatever. Now, let me just tell you, I’m still feeling it out. Let me just tell you, I’m still barely going out to places with kids, with people with little kids, because I’m just like, what’s happening? I don’t even know what happened.

Julie Gunlock:

Right.

Christy Narsi:

Even the first day I had to take her to the grocery store, I was like… all of a sudden there’s those things that you put in the cart to keep them from germs. And I’m like, get some germs. I need you to get some germs.

Julie Gunlock:

Get some germs. Yes, exactly. People would be horrified. My child would be eating the bar, they’d be biting in the bar, and I’m like, whatever, I don’t care. Whereas now, people are like yeah, they put plastic all around it.

Christy Narsi:

Oh my gosh. So I’m thinking in my head, everyone’s judging me, but I finally just let go of it. And I just said, you know what? Here’s the thing. I’m experienced this time. I actually do know what I’m doing in a lot of ways, and some I don’t, I’m open, I’m learning, but I know what I’m doing, so I’m just going to do this thing the way that I see best. I’m still, I know my mom instinct is there, even though I didn’t have her from birth, even though this was all new, I know that woman instinct is still in me, and I’m just going to push it all aside. So if they’re judging me, they’re judging me. I have no idea. Great.

Julie Gunlock:

Let me pause and say that is some of the best parenting advice I’ve heard because when you say it kicks in, I think it kicks in even for new moms, because you know what? We were not born and raised in a laboratory. We watched our moms, I mean, my mom would literally clean the counter with disinfectant while I was eating. I am have no doubt that she sprayed some bleach in my food. And because she was a bit of a neat freak. But the point is that… obviously my mother had a lot of great qualities, but I watched my mom parent, I knew what was important, what wasn’t important.

I parent much like my mom did. And it’s interesting when you talk about, it kicked in, but I think that stuff kicks in when you first become a mother. And what’s so sad now is that we are seeing a lot of moms and dads, frankly, I think a lot of dads are like, whatever you want, honey. But you see people rejecting the instincts of what’s safe and unsafe and what’s okay and what’s not okay. And this is what happened. The big thing when I was having kids was, I don’t know if you remember the BPA scare?

Christy Narsi:

Yes.

Julie Gunlock:

Oh, BPA free. BPA free. And I actually have written a lot about that. I’ve written a lot about these sort of scares that get people kind of nervous. And what the manufacturers did, they replaced BPA with BPS, and then we’re able to say it’s BPA free. And BPS is a slightly different class that actually leeches more chemicals into the milk. So they made the change to make everyone feel better. And so they could put BPA free, but it actually didn’t make any… now both BPA and BPS, BPA and BPS do not leach much. It’s very small amounts of a chemical, it doesn’t affect the baby. But the point is that, I remember being so angry when I learned that and because all these people were running around throwing out their bottles, replacing them with more expensive stuff.

And to be honest with you, my mom handed me a glass bottle and was like, good luck. If it breaks, hope you don’t cut yourself. So I don’t know, I could go on and on about this, but I loved what you said about it kicked in. I knew what I was doing. I trusted myself, and I don’t really care what other people are if they’re judging me. So I love this and I love talking to you, and we are coming up on our sort of deadline here or timeline here.

But I want to ask one more question, and that is, if you were to give one bit of advice to either a mom who isn’t 20, right, might be facing a circumstance like this where suddenly life is changed, maybe they get pregnant late. Maybe it was an unexpected pregnancy, right? Or something like this where you have to take in a child of a relative or a friend. What would be the one piece of advice as they’re looking at this enormous life change, a word of advice or a few things that you would say made it easier on you?

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, that’s a really good question. Don’t ever cash in on yourself. And what I mean by that is we all come into this world with purpose, with hopes, with dreams. And some of those we do put off until we’re done parenting. And some are actually meant for us to do while we’re parenting. And so I think trying to figure out what makes you feel like you’re walking in purpose is going to be the most important thing. Because if you’re walking in depression, or if you are ignoring self-care, and part of self-care is keeping on purpose, you’re actually passing on that sense of unwholeness to your kids. And so when I look back at raising my bios, I think there are some things that I should have just kept moving forward and doing. And it would have given my kids a sense of, man, it’s not that mom has it all, but mom does know what she’s here for, and she’s not sacrificing to the point where she doesn’t even know who she is anymore.

So the first thing I did, and it sounds insane, but for me, it’s what kept me sane, IWN, Independent Women’s Network, it came to me in May, right? Two months after I’ve got this 14-month-old that I thought to myself. I was like, self, you have got to make sure that you convince yourself nothing has changed. You still have hopes and dreams, and God still has a way to get you there. And so I said, this matches a lot of my passions, and this will be a great outlet for me. And so that’s when I dove in. It seems crazy to start something like that when you’re just in the middle of this trauma. But for me, it was a reconnect to who I am. Stay the course. Understand nothing’s changed. So yeah, don’t cash in on yourself. That’s the biggest thing.

Julie Gunlock:

I love that. I love that. And I will say, just a little plug for IW, so I work for IW, but I’ve worked for IW for 16 years, and I was working on Capitol Hill, and I had to leave, I actually continued to work on Capitol Hill after my first child was born, but I couldn’t keep up that pace. And so I quit. And soon after I started working for IW, because it was a work from home situation, and I actually, I was lucky my senator actually let me stay home with my child. So I was still working from home when I worked for Senator Coburn, but I knew that IW was sort of committed. This is before Covid, right? This is before working from home was the norm, and it was wonderful. So it’s funny that I think about, I came onto IW, this sort of with a child almost the same age as your little girl, and it’s always been wonderful for me.

So I love that you dove in at a time where everyone would be like, hey, you might want to back off of things. You actually saw that sort of continuing with your own dreams, and that’s healthy. I think that’s healthy also for your little girl, it’s also nice too. So I’m just speaking from experience, it’s nice to sometimes get a break from the new baby and do something.

Christy Narsi:

Yes, yes, yes.

Julie Gunlock:

Professional. So listen, you have given so much great advice and perspective. You have such a unique parenting situation. I think unique parenting situations demand much more of a bespoke approach to parenting. And that we need to encourage women to say, look, put down the parenting guide. Still read some and consider the advice. But sometimes you just have to, like you said, so wisely, you need to respect your instincts. Listen to your instincts and do what’s best for your family. So Christy, thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it. It was a fun talk.

Christy Narsi:

Thank you so much for having me. It’s been so fun getting you to know you personally too.

Julie Gunlock:

I know. It’s been great. It’s been great. Just before we go, give a really quick plug for IWN and tell them where they can go to sign up.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah. So go to iwnetwork.com and you can look and see if there’s a local chapter in your area. If not, start one. Just do it. We are having so much fun expanding all throughout every state. So yeah, iwnetwork.com.

Julie Gunlock:

And Christy will be the person that you’ll connect with the most. She is the chapter manager and she sort of helps guide people, figures out what they need in terms of resources. And it is more on the policy side, Christy sort of fields questions about like, hey, I’d really like some talking points or some guidance on writing a letter. I’d like some training. I would like more information about specific topics. So Christy is your go-to on that. And again, Christy, thanks for joining us.

Christy Narsi:

Yeah, thank you.

Julie Gunlock:

I loved that conversation. And I could have gone on and on for hours. And if you loved it, I would love you to send comments and any follow-up questions to [email protected]. The Bespoke Parenting podcast is a production of the Independent Women’s Forum, and you can help out the organization and me personally by hitting the subscribe button. You can also leave us a comment or review on Apple Podcast, Acast, Google Play, YouTube, or iwf.org. Hang in there, parents, and go bespoke.