On this episode of The Bespoke Parenting Podcast, host Julie Gunlock talks to radio talk show host, author, and co-founder of PragerU Dennis Prager. Julie and Dennis discuss the state of education in America, why homeschooling is a solution for so many families dealing with failing schools, and debunk some of the common myths surrounding homeschooling.
TRANSCRIPT
Julie Gunlock:
Hi, everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock, host of the Bespoke Parenting Podcast. For those new to the program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves, and most importantly, their kids.
Today I am so excited be talking to Dennis Prager. Dennis, of course, needs no introduction, but for the very few listening who don’t know, Dennis is a New York Times bestselling author, columnist, and nationally syndicated radio host. He’s a hero to many parents like myself, and of course, he’s the co-founder of Prager University. Dennis, it’s so great to be with you today. Thanks for joining me.
Dennis Prager:
The joy is mutual. Thank you.
Julie Gunlock:
Look, today, we’re going to be talking about homeschooling. This is an issue you are very passionate about. But before we get started, because this is the be Bespoke Parenting Hour, I always like to ask my guests what kind of parent were you? There’s a lot of labels today on parenting, and maybe you combined a few different styles, I certainly did, but how did you view parenting as you were raising kids, and how would you label your parenting style?
Dennis Prager:
It’s a wonderful question. I’m thinking how do I properly respond? Well, I’ll tell you one thing that both my sons would acknowledge. In other words, if you asked them this, I know that they would say this, from the get-go, I said to them “the only thing I really care about, or the thing I care about more than anything else, let’s put it that way, is their character.” I actually said to them, “I don’t care what college you get into, and I don’t care if you go to college. I only care about your character. If you get into Harvard and I don’t like your character, I will have failed. If you don’t go to college at all and I like your character, I have succeeded.”
Number two, I sought to be a parent. They can have a lot of buddies, but they only get one dad, in the normal scheme of things, and I was that guy. And I wanted to radiate fatherhood, manhood, to my boys. No one is a perfect model, but I aimed to be a good model of what a man should be to my two boys. That was extremely important to me. And, number three, when I am called by new parents, which is frequent, and they say, “Dennis, give me one piece of advice regarding raising a child,” this is the piece of advice I give them: self-control is infinitely more important than self-esteem. Those are my three immediate answers to your question.
Julie Gunlock:
Boy, that’s a great answer, and I feel like it’s interesting, I do want to talk about homeschooling, but as the mother of three boys, I feel like that answer was so wonderful for parents of boys, because some of the things that you suggested or you talked about, it’s not what boys are being told today between toxic masculinity … and, when we think about what happened on the subway in New York City with this madman, Jordan Neely, coming in and threatening people, and then the passengers are saved by this brave ex-Marine, and he’s now indicted in New York for being a good person, for having good character, for saving others, for being brave. It bothers me tremendously, in our culture, what boys are being told. Is that one of the reasons that you think homeschooling is a better way to go for parents?
Dennis Prager:
It is one, but the major reason is the schools are toxic. Why would you play Russian roulette with your child? It is so amazing to me, many parents are afraid of their kid going on a diving board, something that was completely ubiquitous when I was a child and was banned in California home pools, I don’t know, 30 years ago, and jungle bars and seesaws. They’ve now, by the way, banned in California, there’s a law, and it’ll pass of course, because the Democrats can pass a law that the earth is flat, and they, on occasion, do, that Skittles will not be allowed because, among other things, it has red dye number three in it.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh, God, oh, God.
Dennis Prager:
That, parents are worried about, but sending their child to a place that, from the get-go, will say, “You can choose whether you’re a boy or a girl, or neither, or both, and you can go back and forth.” Forgive me, I heard you inhale and I always stop when I hear an inhale.
Julie Gunlock:
Well, gosh, you just mentioned that the transgender issue, which is just awful, as you have been very outspoken about this, it’s this cult and it’s spreading, particularly among girls. But it was interesting, just this morning before this podcast, I was scrolling through Twitter, because I’m a masochist, and I saw this clip of you in 2019 on the Bill Maher Show warning people about just how radical it’s going to get, and Bill Maher was, “Come on, come on.” This was not on the schedule of things to talk to you about, but since I have you, thank you so much because, again, you were ridiculed by him and by others at that time, but we are there now. We are there. We are at this point where men are saying they can menstruate or breastfeed or what have you, and you predicted that very early on, so thank you.
And, again, I think this cult that we’re seeing among young people today is another very compelling reason to homeschool. But, back on the homeschooling thing, I’m the queen of tangents, but I’m trying to control myself, let’s talk about some of these things that people say are barriers to homeschooling. And I would love to get your thoughts on each of these things. And, Dennis, I will tell you, these are the things I hear when I talk to parents and I say, “You really should homeschool. You shouldn’t put your child in the …” I hear parents saying their kids are being bullied and attacked, and coming home, they can’t do simple math. And I’m like, “Why aren’t you homeschooling?” Let’s go through those. “I work, my spouse works, outside the home. What can I do?” What’s the answer? What do you say to that?
Dennis Prager:
Well, I have two answers. One is philosophical, moral, psychological, and the other is practical. The first one is this, I have never met anyone who said, and I’ve met a lot of parents, a lot of parents, both through the radio and in person, I never met one who said, “I really regret that I homeschooled my child.” The number I have met who have said, “Oh, God, if I had only homeschooled my child. My kid was poisoned at school. I don’t recognize him or her anymore,” is in the millions. That’s the answer in the long run. If you take a financial hit, move to a place that’s cheaper, I know it’s easy for me to say. It’s easy for me to say that, if it’s freezing out, wear a sweater. It doesn’t make it wrong just because it’s easy to say.
Number two, I tell grandparents who have more money than their children, “What do you want to do, die with that money? Why don’t you say to your child or your daughter or son-in-law or both, say to them, ‘You know what? I will try to make up the loss that you have by sending my beloved granddaughter … by not sending my beloved grandson to school to be ruined, be potentially ruined, and have them homeschooled instead.'” A lot of grandparents are in better condition, they have much less debt, they have savings, they have equity. And we’re not talking about, I assume, a giant sum of money. If we’re talking about a giant sum of money, then the spouse who doesn’t make a giant sum of money can supervise the homeschooling, and I’m saying that as a man. It doesn’t matter to me which parent supervises the homeschooling, but that’s the only answer I know of, other than the rare, and they exist, decent school that is committed to beauty, truth, and the like.
Julie Gunlock:
The classical school, which-
Dennis Prager:
Yeah. Well, some classical. It’s so easy to go woke. I had a Shabbat dinner, Sabbath dinner, a few weeks ago, and a girl was visiting from an Orthodox school, I went to Orthodox schools myself, and she said that there’s a girl there with preferred pronouns.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh, wow. It really has infiltrated even areas that you didn’t think it would.
Dennis Prager:
That’s right.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah, and I really feel like the Catholic Church has been quite good about being a bulwark against this stuff, just refusing and-
Dennis Prager:
Well, the church has, but I’m telling you, unless I’m getting real misinformation, the number of Catholics who tell me that their Catholic school is woke is legion.
Julie Gunlock:
I should really back that up, you’re right, because I think I’m a little bit spoiled because I managed to find a Catholic classical school that is committed to a classical curriculum. And I’m a little bit spoiled, and I’m a little bit in a bubble now because, to me, I’m like, “Oh, the Catholic schools are all bulwarks against this.” But I know that’s not true because I have heard, as you have, about that, but the curriculum itself is diocesan, and so that helps a little bit in allowing them to say no to some things. And I think that’s helpful, but you’re right, it hasn’t totally protected those kids in those schools, which, again, is a reason to homeschool, ultimate control.
Let’s go through a little, another excuse that I hear, the, “I don’t feel qualified.” I got my kids out of public school during COVID, and I have a certain amount of guilt that I didn’t do it earlier, and I homeschooled. I did homeschool my oldest for two years, and I have a certain amount of guilt that I didn’t do it earlier, but I was a little bit prey to that I, or I was a little bit a victim of that narrative. And we do live in this culture of the credentialed class and public school teachers saying, “Oh, you should really just sit there and be quiet.” What do you say to people who are vulnerable to those messages
Dennis Prager:
Of being not qualified?
Julie Gunlock:
Yes.
Dennis Prager:
I’m not. The thought of me teaching my child math is a joke. I recognize that. It is so much easier today than 10 years ago, let alone 25 years ago, to homeschool your child because there are so many groups that are formed all over the country that make it feasible. You don’t have to be your child’s teacher. Oddly enough, because of the name homeschool, not oddly enough, I guess reasonably enough, people think, “Oh, that means the home does all the schooling.” That’s not true.
Julie Gunlock:
That’s right.
Dennis Prager:
Homeschool groups do all the schooling. If you can, wonderful, more’s the better, but if you can’t, don’t worry about it.
Julie Gunlock:
I used Memoria Press as a curriculum for when I was homeschooling, and they actually had a Memoria Press academy where my son, he took biology because no one should trust me to teach science. That was great. Again, it was a combination, as you say. You use online sources, and these are often very affordable, as well as the curriculum is pretty affordable. It’s a lot more affordable than private school.
Dennis Prager:
That’s right. And, again, the price paid, potentially paid, the percentage of kids in America today who say that they are LGBTQ, it is, what, 10 times larger than 10 years ago. The point is not anti-LGBTQ. It is anti a culture that confuses your child about his or her sexuality, that schools in the most conservative places tell their teachers, “Don’t call your students boys and girls because it’s not inclusive.”
I want my son to think he’s a boy and my daughter to think she’s a girl. I don’t understand why that’s asking too much.
Julie Gunlock:
This leads right into another question. Maybe among conservatives, this is less of a concern now, but the whole idea of, “My kids won’t be socialized,” what do you say to people who are worried about that?
Dennis Prager:
It’s not true. It’s an understandable worry. People have this vision that the only people a homeschool child relates to is the parents, or maybe a sibling, but it’s not true. They are extremely well socialized. I meet so many and talk to so many homeschool kids. They seem to be so much healthier as a general rule. There are exceptions to every rule, that’s why we call it a generalization. In general, you could spot a homeschooled kid in a nanosecond if you know what to look for. For example, they’re not jaded. They’re wide-eyed, optimistic. They embrace the world. They don’t have a cynical, even sick, view of the world that they are given from kindergarten as a kid. They missed out on drag queen story hours. For that alone, why would you keep your kid in a regular school? Life tests us.
Julie Gunlock:
It does.
Dennis Prager:
And it is as simple as that, and you may luck out, your kid go to regular school, regular high school, and a normal college, and come out wonderful. That can happen, and it does. It’s not the rule.
Julie Gunlock:
I often feel bad for parents who say, “We were so close, my child was so happy, and then they went off to,” now, more than ever, it’s happening, “they went off to high school and I suddenly noticed they were sullen, depressed-“
Dennis Prager:
That’s right.
Julie Gunlock:
“… had lots of anxiety. Then, oh, my gosh, they go to college.” One-
Dennis Prager:
I’d like to have a survey, but I doubt if any secular source would do this, and I’m not even advocating necessarily religious homeschooling, even though I’m religious, but just homeschooling. I would like to see a survey done, I’m sure it won’t be, of the percentage of homeschool kids on antidepressants versus the percentage of non-homeschool kids. Let’s say it’s dramatic, will that move a parent to homeschool their child?
Julie Gunlock:
That’s so interesting, and I think you’re right. I think the other thing that was so interesting for my son and I, when I started to homeschool him, is, of course, I had always talked to my son, I was always very involved in my son’s world, but we were both learning at the same time. And I’m like you, I’m a parent, bottom line. I’m a parent. I’m not your friend. I don’t hang out with you. I’m your parent. But it did actually make us enjoy this time together, learning together, discovering new things, and it makes that relationship, frankly, really interesting and complicated in a good way.
And I found that he would discover something new in a book and he would want to talk to me about it. It was a beautiful result of homeschooling, the closeness. It makes you closer with your kids, instead of sending them off, and then you’re like, “Where did they go? What happened to them?” Another incredible benefit of homeschooling.
One quick thing, and we’re running up against time, but I want to talk to you about this. I work at IWF and we’re known for debunking the wage gap, but there is, interestingly, a bit of a gender gap when it comes to homeschooling. A lot of moms are doing it. What advice would you give to dads, and how would you encourage more dads to get involved? And I’m not saying take it over, but maybe teach a class or take control of one area. I just think that more dads need a little bit more encouragement to get involved in this movement as well.
Dennis Prager:
It’s a tougher question than it sounds. Obviously, if dads would be involved, it’s wonderful because every dad has some expertise in something that would be of tremendous benefit to the kids, if it’s to coach them in athletics if necessary, let alone in some arena of knowledge that the dad has. But I want to be realistic. If the dad has taken on the great bulk of money earning in order for this to happen, he has made this possible.
Since you’re a religious Catholic, you might enjoy this. I’m a religious Jew and written books on Judaism. In Judaism, the belief that … there’s no higher goal than studying Torah, in the broadest sense of God’s word. But there is a person, and this is normative Judaism, there is a person who is considered as meritorious, if you will, as the one who studies. It is the one who makes the study possible by helping to build that yeshiva, that school, that house of worship. It is a partnership, the person who does the teaching and studying and the person who makes it possible because he earns or she earns the money.
If you’re a dad and you’re just taking on more in order to homeschool your kids, God bless you. If you can, I would just say to the fathers, the joy of teaching kids is tremendous. People have often asked, “If you didn’t do what you were doing for a living, writing and lecturing and all that stuff, and radio?” Said, “Oh, I’d be a teacher.” I taught high school and I taught college. By the way, I found teaching high school more rewarding, but that doesn’t matter. I loved it. There’s only good that can come from a home doing this for the father and for the mother.
Julie Gunlock:
And I’ll just add on here, if you can’t get involved, as you say, if you are the major breadwinner and you’re taking on even more in order so that your wife and children can stay home and homeschool, but, boy, it helps. My husband was so supportive of me and so complimentary and kind, and that’s another way to support your wife if she’s doing it, because it really-,
Dennis Prager:
That, and, wait, wait, let’s not forget lowering the toilet seat.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes, please.
Dennis Prager:
I had to throw that in.
Julie Gunlock:
As a mother of three boys, I’m really feeling that comment. Yes, thank you.
Last question, you don’t just promote homeschooling, you, of course, do a lot to support parents doing it. Let’s talk a little bit about PragerU and the resources you offer parents. Honestly, I said you were my personal hero. My son, I think he’s watched every single PragerU video. He is so excited about this. I am a super, super cool mom to be talking to you right now. But I want to take a moment for you to talk about it and so that parents know that they exist.
Dennis Prager:
We have so much material. You can use PragerU alone and essentially raise your child. I’m not talking about biology and math. We don’t teach biology or math. We teach life. We teach history. We teach meaning. We teach clarity. We teach logic. We do it in a fun way, but very seriously. We have almost 60 5-minute videos on virtually every subject by some of the most remarkable thinkers alive today. And we have an enormous literature, body of literature, for little kids, which gives them a beautiful introduction to Memorial Day. What is it? What does it even mean? The average American kid has no clue what Memorial Day means. Increasingly, they won’t even know what July 4th means.
Yes, and it’s all free because we have a tremendous amount of terrific people who donate to make what we do possible. It’s all free, prageru.com,
Julie Gunlock:
And we will put all of the links at the bottom of this podcast as well so people can find it there. Dennis, thank you so, so much for coming on. You’ve certainly made it easier for me to raise my kids and guide them, and so, on behalf of lots and lots of parents, thank you so much.
Dennis Prager:
My honor.
Julie Gunlock:
I’ve got goosebumps, I’m so excited to have talked to Dennis Prager. The Bespoke podcast with Julie Gunlock is a production of the Independent Women’s Forum. You can send comments and questions to me at [email protected]. Please help me out by hitting the subscribe button and leaving me a comment or leave a review on Apple Podcast, Acast, Google Play, YouTube, and iwf.org. Hang in there, parents, and go Bespoke.
