On this episode of The Bespoke Parenting Podcast, host Julie Gunlock talks to radio host Larry O’Connor about his own experience raising patriotic kids. Larry explains why it’s important to explain to children the reason for the holiday, how he made love of country a priority for his children’s homeschool curriculum, and why parents today should seriously consider homeschooling as a way to ensure kids learn why America is worth defending.
TRANSCRIPT
Julie Gunlock:
Hey, everyone. I’m Julie Gunlock, host of The Bespoke Parenting Podcast. For those new to this program, this podcast is focused on how parents should custom tailor their parenting style to fit what’s best for their families, themselves, and most importantly their kids. Today I am joined by my good friend, Larry O’Connor. He is host of O’Connor & Company on WMAL 105.9 in Washington DC. He’s a senior columnist at Townhall and he’s host of his online steaming…streaming program, O’Connor Tonight.
Larry O’Connor:
It’s steaming, too. Hot.
Julie Gunlock:
On Salem News Channel. All that he does is wonderful.
Larry O’Connor:
And you’re and company on O’Connor & Company. Along with-
Julie Gunlock:
I am. I’m one of the companies.
Larry O’Connor:
… your colleague Patrice Onwuka from-
Julie Gunlock:
That’s right. That’s right. We usually talk very early in the morning. It’s nice to see you on an afternoon.
Larry O’Connor:
Oh, I may fall asleep as we speak. I’m sure you’re just like me right now.
Julie Gunlock:
I have iced tea.
Larry O’Connor:
Oh, darn you.
Julie Gunlock:
Just for the listeners, we get up very early. We are in studio at 4:30 AM and we’re live from five to nine. So we’ve already talked to each other for five hours today, but we’re going to do a little bit more. It is 4th of July. Happy 4th of July.
Larry O’Connor:
Happy Independence Day.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes, happy Independence Day. I love the flag.
Larry O’Connor:
I’d like to say. That’s actually one answer to one of your questions that you might ask me about my kids.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes, I am going to ask you about it. What we’re going to talk about, and we’ll certainly talk about your kids, talk about my kids, but the subject of this podcast today is how to raise patriotic kids. Which didn’t seem to be a big challenge a couple years ago, but seems to increasingly be today. So I want to get into that. But most importantly, I want to talk… You have four kids and you homeschooled.
Larry O’Connor:
I did.
Julie Gunlock:
I hear a lot about your kids, but what is so interesting to me is one of your… Talk about a sign of patriotism. Your daughter just a couple weeks ago graduated from the Naval Academy.
Larry O’Connor:
She did, yeah. She’s an ensign in the Navy now. It’s crazy. I’m so proud of her.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes.
Larry O’Connor:
I mean, I’m proud of all of my kids, obviously, but when your kid stands up and raises her hand and swears to serve and everything that goes along with it… When she was contemplating joining the Naval Academy and making that her college option, it’s not like she didn’t have other options. Usually kids who qualify for the Naval Academy have a lot going for them.
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Larry O’Connor:
She actually got early acceptance to MIT.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh.
Larry O’Connor:
Yeah. It’s so funny, her school counselor in Southern California was like, “Well, you’re going to go to MIT, right?” And my daughter was like, “My heart is telling me Naval Academy. That’s where I belong. I’ve always wanted to go there.” And I kid you not, her counselor in Southern California literally said, “Well, that would be just such a waste.”
Julie Gunlock:
No.
Larry O’Connor:
I know.
Julie Gunlock:
Wow.
Larry O’Connor:
Because I think in California it’s like they want to brag that students go to MIT and there’s this note that they look down on the military.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Larry O’Connor:
So when you see… I talked to her before she made this decision. I said, “Well, why do you want to be in the military?” Because when you… It’s hard to say as a parent. When you pledge to be a part of the military, you are putting yourself in a position where you might have to give your life for this country. And she said, “Yeah, I love this country and I love the idea of that sense of duty and putting myself in that position, considering what the country has given back to me.” It’s like, “Who the hell raised you?”
Julie Gunlock:
Well-
Larry O’Connor:
It’s amazing. I mean-
Julie Gunlock:
I want to talk a little bit about how they were raised, and one of the things that I… I think there’s certain things you can do with your children to ensure they have love of country and they have a really healthy understanding of history, and that is homeschooling. And you homeschooled. I know that you’ve interviewed with Heather Hunter, who’s my colleague at IWN. She’s also producer for our show, O’Connor & Company. Very incestuous. We’re all connected.
Larry O’Connor:
Yes. One big family. It’s a holiday, so we can be family.
Julie Gunlock:
Exactly. But I do suggest people look up that… That was a great podcast that Heather did with you, and she talked in depth about your homeschooling. But I want to find out… It’s funny, I’ve seen little videos of Veronica and her sister doing a Thanksgiving play. It seemed like that was a large part of their homeschooling experience, is really explaining to them why America is great. So tell me a little bit about how you did that.
Larry O’Connor:
Well, it’s funny, because when I said happy… I mean, one of the things that we did very early on was we said we’re not going to refer to it as the 4th of July, because that just sounds like a date. Christians don’t celebrate, “Hey, happy December 25th.”
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Larry O’Connor:
Right? No, this is not the 4th of July. We’re not celebrating just a day in the calendar. This day has meaning. And so, my kids from the get-go knew it was Independence Day. What does that mean? That word is so important to our nation, isn’t it? Independence. Early on in our homeschool curriculum, we dove into that. What does that independence mean? And we very much were into meanings. It’s not just Memorial Day, this means something. My family does not have a huge history of service. My father’s brothers served, but that was Korean War era and it seems so far away. But despite the fact that none of my brothers or sisters served in the military, we instilled in our kids deep respect for people who wore the uniform.
They were all born… My oldest was born in 1999. My daughter Veronica, who is actually the one who is now in the Navy, she was born a month before 9/11.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh.
Larry O’Connor:
I was holding her in my arms that morning as I saw the towers falling. So, we very much raised our kids in a very fresh from 9/11 era and that patriotism and that love of our country, and recognizing that there is an existential threat of enemies to this nation. That was a big part of their childhood. It’s funny, we didn’t actually tell them about what happened on September 11th until we felt they were old enough. When they were eight or nine. Because I didn’t want them afraid to go on an airplane and things like that. But because that was the era in the Bush presidency, fresh off the attacks of 9/11, it was very important to us to instill in our kids respect for the military.
When we saw someone in uniform at an airport or wherever we were, we would go out of our way to thank them for their service. It’s just little things like that. It’s not like you have to do a whole curriculum, but you model for your children what’s important and what we value, like service, like the military and love of our nation and respect for the flag. And they pick up on it. They pick up on it really quickly. You don’t have to be too heavy-handed about it.
And I know you’re going to laugh at me and make fun of me.
Julie Gunlock:
Probably.
Larry O’Connor:
Yes. But my background is in the theater. Before working in the radio, I was a manager in the professional Broadway theater. I mean, I’ve learned a ton of… I’ve learned a lot from theater. Think about it. Back in the Greek days and the early… I mean, theater is how we would teach history in Western civilization. From the Greeks to the Romans, to the Elizabethan times through… I mean, how many of us know history because of William Shakespeare’s plays, right?
Julie Gunlock:
Right.
Larry O’Connor:
I’m really over rationalizing this, but there is a musical called 1776.
Julie Gunlock:
I’ve heard of it.
Larry O’Connor:
It’s a musical about the founding fathers. And it might not be a 100% historically accurate, but it’s a good show. And it became a tradition on Independence Day that our kids would watch it.
Julie Gunlock:
Really?
Larry O’Connor:
And they all learned it. And they learned about the founding, and they learned about the declaration, and they learned about the importance of Independence Day through that musical.
Julie Gunlock:
That’s great though.
Larry O’Connor:
I’m so embarrassed.
Julie Gunlock:
No, no, no, that’s great. And I think parents need to look for interesting ways that capture children, that capture their imaginations.
Larry O’Connor:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
Not always. Don’t hand them a… Look, I’m sure my son would find… if you handed him a constitution he’d be fine reading it and find it fascinating, but my other two wouldn’t. So you have to be flexible that way. But Larry, I think-
Larry O’Connor:
Big one right here. I have these around all the time too.
Julie Gunlock:
That’s good. That’s awesome. My son actually did… he always has one with him. And one moment in class he actually gave the constitution to the teacher, because the teacher was trying to remember a particular article. He says it was one of his best moments. He was so-
Larry O’Connor:
Awesome moment.
Julie Gunlock:
It really was.
Larry O’Connor:
Excuse me, Ms. Jones. I have the constitution right here. I believe you’re looking for article five.
Julie Gunlock:
And he goes to such a great school. It’s a classical school and it’s filled with these kids that are… They thought it was so cool, so it’s nice. Because in some school environments-
Larry O’Connor:
Actually it says right here…
Julie Gunlock:
It wasn’t like that. He was really circumspect about it.
Larry O’Connor:
You’ve raised that kid.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes, I’ve raised that kid. But he’s so sweet and he didn’t do it in any smug way. He was just like, “Oh, I actually have one,” and everyone was like… But I-
Larry O’Connor:
I knew this would come in handy one day.
Julie Gunlock:
I know. It’s a chick magnet actually in his school, because really smart kids.
Larry O’Connor:
Oh heck yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
But I want to talk about-
Larry O’Connor:
Hey, aren’t you the kid who has the constitution? Show me your Bill of Rights.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh God. I want to talk to you though. I think you have… What do you have?
Larry O’Connor:
I was going to make a bearing arms joke, but I can-
Julie Gunlock:
Yes, I know. Do you have… I can’t get this right. You must have young millennials, or older millennials and a young Gen Zer. But you have both millennials and Gen Zers, right?
Larry O’Connor:
My kids? No, they’re all Gen Z.
Julie Gunlock:
Are they all Gen Z?
Larry O’Connor:
My oldest is 23. That’s Gen Z.
Julie Gunlock:
Okay. Yes, definitely. Okay.
Larry O’Connor:
Excuse me. I’m married to a millennial. Thanks for mixing up my wife with one of my oldest children, Julie. I appreciate that. She’s a little younger than me.
Julie Gunlock:
Sorry. Sorry. Wow. Okay. Well anyway, as a Gen X, I am like you.
Larry O’Connor:
Yes. You and I-
Julie Gunlock:
Let’s talk a little bit about that generation, because recently Cato came out with this study. I thought this was fascinating. A third of Gen Zers are in favor of government installing cameras, surveillance cameras, in a home, because they say it’ll reduce abuse or crimes. So they’re fully in favor of this. And then a majority of Gen Z hold negative views of capitalism. 38% have positive views of socialism.
Larry O’Connor:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
I think you and I both have thoughts on why this is.
Larry O’Connor:
What the hell is going on, right?
Julie Gunlock:
What the heck? Why is it, Larry? What’s happening?
Larry O’Connor:
I have very strong feelings about this. Recently, just within the last couple of weeks, a certain retired member of Congress, a very high ranking member of congressional leadership, was sort of bragging in an interview on network television about how he’s not a culture guy. He wants to worry about taxation and spending and the debt and the threat of China.
Julie Gunlock:
I know who you’re talking about.
Larry O’Connor:
I’m not naming names, can’t recall it right now, but-
Julie Gunlock:
It’s Paul Ryan.
Larry O’Connor:
But to me that’s the problem, is this whole culture. I don’t want to dabble in the culture. And I know right now culture issues have to do with transgender ideology and curriculum and critical race theory perhaps.
Julie Gunlock:
CRT, yeah.
Larry O’Connor:
And other issues like that. But you know what? On this guy’s watch over the last 20 years when, he really did represent conservative principles… And he’s our generation, Julie. We’re all Reagan youth here. We all were inspired by Ronald Reagan, and rightly so. While he ignored the culture because he’s not a culture guy and focused on spending and debt and things that are arguably very important-
Julie Gunlock:
Social security, Medicaid, entitlements. These things are very important.
Larry O’Connor:
Sure. Important stuff. And you try to make reforms and they say you’re going to throw grandma off a cliff in a wheelchair, so that leaves a mark.
Julie Gunlock:
And maybe the idea that any touching of social security and Medicare and all these… maybe that’s also a cultural issue.
Larry O’Connor:
Yeah.
Julie Gunlock:
We should teach kids that, look, we’ve got to reform these things. We don’t want people to starve. Maybe that’s a cultural issue too.
Larry O’Connor:
But just focusing on that stuff you sort of take your eye off something that… And again, God bless the guy. I want to live in Paul Ryan’s America. I do. I want to go back to a time when Democrats and Republicans both thought this was the greatest country on the planet. I’d love to go back to a time when both Republicans and Democrats can agree on basic issues of freedom and independence and all of those things that are in the constitution.
Julie Gunlock:
And protecting kids.
Larry O’Connor:
Yes, definitely.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes.
Larry O’Connor:
Fourth amendment, and right to privacy, and the fact that the government is not always your friend when it comes to search and seizure and all that stuff. The reason Gen Z now believes those things that you just said in that Cato poll is because the leaders of the conservative movements, our era, our generation, they walked away from things like school board attendance and running for school board office and making sure that the curriculum is free of all of the agendas that have been infiltrated in there.
The reason that Gen Z believes that capitalism is a problematic idea is because conservatives walked away from thinking that socialism would never be put into the mainstream of the public schools in our country. And look where we are, because we took our eye off the ball. And now we have to go back and fight and say, “Well, wait a minute. You’re teaching our kids socialism in government-run schools?” That’s why kids believe that. It’s because they’ve been taught it and because sadly, we conservatives, we got complacent and we thought, “Oh, well we won the Cold War, we tore down the iron curtain,” never knowing that they were going to start teaching communism in our own schools.
Julie Gunlock:
That’s right.
Larry O’Connor:
So we got to get back in the game. And if that’s a culture war, guilty, I’m ready to fight it.
Julie Gunlock:
I feel like we, deservedly so, blame schools for a lot of where we see Gen Z, and also a lot of millennials. This appreciation of socialism, this idea that surveillance is good, that government is good, that the government should really tell you what to do because they know better. But I got to say, Larry, parents deserve a lot of blame too. And I am one of these parents who got angry during COVID. I am one of these angry parents that DOJ’s probably got a file on, and I am one of these parents who is really, really angry. But when I look at how… When I became a parent and look back at when my mom was parenting, the explosion of these services that are provided in the school… I can drop my kid off at 6:00 AM and they get breakfast, and then there’s aftercare and there’s all these enrichment programs. There are wellness centers that can give kids birth control and STD screenings. Of course you can’t get an aspirin without calling mom, but you can get all this other stuff. You can get sent over for your testosterone.
Larry O’Connor:
Bandaid.
Julie Gunlock:
You can get sent over for your testosterone shot, but you can’t get a bandaid. But anyway, the point is that I feel like parents have ceded a lot of what was basic parental responsibility to the government. And then kids grow up in this environment where they were dropped off at school at 6:00 AM and picked up at 6:00 PM hardly spending any time with parents and the parents now are like, “Get on your screen so I don’t have to deal with you.” I know that I’m going on and on.
Larry O’Connor:
No, you’re not wrong though.
Julie Gunlock:
Tell me what role parents have in this.
Larry O’Connor:
Listen, you’re right. Parents ultimately are responsible for their children, despite what your local school system might say or your Democratic leadership these days actually. Oh, they’re all our children. They’re not your children, they’re our children, right?
Julie Gunlock:
It takes a village.
Larry O’Connor:
Yeah. We are responsible. But honestly, I mean, I throw a little bit of grace the parents’ way. A little bit. Only because promises were made. Promises were made that, listen, this is the public school system and we got all this funding and we’re going to do this curriculum. Parents were told, number one, that their kids will be taken care of. And we didn’t think. Who would’ve believed that public schools, government-run schools, would get so awful so fast? I mean socialism, please. And climate ideology. I mean, God, I yearn for the days that that’s the only thing we have to worry about from the government schools, number one.
And also number two, listen, we parents were very much taken in by the idea of the consumerism in our society. Dual income? Absolutely. That means more money and that means more things and more stuff and bigger house and better lawn and better car and better vacations, and all of that stuff. The parents who made other decisions and there was only one income and they didn’t go on the fancy vacations every year and they didn’t have the fancy car, but they were raising their kids different. And in the long run, I think they’re probably happier. If I had to do it all over again, I might have made different decisions. I’ll be honest.
That’s one of the reasons why we decided to homeschool our kids and why I made sacrifices with my job so that I could stay home. And no, I didn’t have as much money necessarily when they were littler, and I made those decisions. But it was because raising them at home and teaching them and being a part of their early years was a priority. We haven’t embraced that as a priority for our kids necessarily.
Julie Gunlock:
No.
Larry O’Connor:
And I think that the pendulum’s swinging back the other way.
Julie Gunlock:
I agree.
Larry O’Connor:
We’re seeing that now.
Julie Gunlock:
Let me wrap this up by asking this last question, and any other thoughts that you want to add to this. You kind of touched on this. There are some more vulnerable parents who are not able to homeschool their kids, or they’re not able to send their kids to a private school of their choice. I send my kids to classical schools. They tend to be much more conservative and they definitely teach love of country. What advice would you give parents who might be stuck in their government assigned school? Maybe they don’t have a lot of time to supplement, but what can they do? What little things can they do?
Larry O’Connor:
I would reexamine if that’s really the case. Especially now that we live in an age where the threshold to being able to work remote has lowered quite a bit. The cost of working from home, or at least one parent working from home, has… Because of high speed internet, because of video interaction and things, I think you need to really reexamine it. And reexamine whether it really is the case that a combination of one parent working from home and being able to carve out time throughout that day to be able to do a curriculum with your children, in addition to the other parent who may not be working from home full time, but when they come home they can then, instead of having a beer and watching TV, they can then engage in half of, or at least a third of, the school curriculum.
I mean, I worked from home when I was homeschooling my kids, but their mom and I made a deal. Because I wasn’t… Working from home doesn’t mean that you’re not working. Your focus is your job a good portion of that time. So it’s not like you’re just doing arts and crafts with the kids the whole time. But I was responsible for history, I was responsible for religion, and I was responsible for English. And my kids’ mom, my ex-wife now, was responsible for math. Thank God it wasn’t me.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh yeah.
Larry O’Connor:
And science, and arts and crafts more of the hands-on kind of thing. But I love the fact that I taught my kids how to read. I love the fact that I was able to read stories with them and I could teach them how to write and I could teach them punctuation. That’s my strength. And history. I mean, God, teaching them world history and American history is basically just storytelling. You sit and you read a story to them, or you read it with them because they’re reading along, and then there’s quizzes and you ask questions and you do projects related to history. How great is that?
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah. The 18 months that I homeschooled I so enjoyed learning along with my son. Things that, first of all, I was not taught in my public school in the middle of Illinois. So I learned a lot.
Larry O’Connor:
Oh, I learned a ton when I was teaching.
Julie Gunlock:
Oh my gosh. It’s great. I just want to quickly-
Larry O’Connor:
But real fast, I just want to-
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah.
Larry O’Connor:
I mean, just if I could. Because I know it sounds easy, or I know it sounds like I’m making it sound easy, but if it really is a priority for you, you’d be surprised how moving to a different part of the country where it’s a little bit cheaper… It’s not even that far away from where you are right now, where I know it seems really expensive. But about an hour away from you there’s a much less expensive place to live. And you’re in the same general vicinity, but suddenly you’ve got new opportunities because you’re not spending so much on your home. And you’d be surprised, if you make this your priority, if you make this your mission, how things start to fall into place a little bit easier. And if it isn’t the opportunity for you, I get it. And I’m sorry if I’m making it sound easier than it is. But for some of you out there listening, it actually is kind of easy if you take the time and make it your mission.
Julie Gunlock:
You are addressing the financial concerns people have, which are legion and understandable. But also, there is the time issue. What I think people don’t understand is Jack and I would start at 10, we’d be done by one 1:30 or 2:00. Because we would pack it in and then he would go off and read a book or do… and then I could do work. So just tell me quickly… And I know it’s different, because I was at the time teaching a middle schooler. But my goodness, when they’re really little it’s even easier.
Larry O’Connor:
It is.
Julie Gunlock:
It’s not a huge… I don’t think people understand. You are not going to be sitting there for eight hours.
Larry O’Connor:
Kindergarten curriculum with my oldest was 45 minutes a day, four days a week.
Julie Gunlock:
That’s amazing.
Larry O’Connor:
And in teaching her how to read in kindergarten, my then three-year old learned how to read just through osmosis, from being in the room. You teach your kid to read when they’re three, the next thing you know they’re graduating from the Naval Academy.
Julie Gunlock:
And they got early-
Larry O’Connor:
And early acceptance to MIT. And literally, I mean, before you know it, because that 20 years went by real fast.
Julie Gunlock:
Yeah. Larry, you’re so great and this is so helpful.
Larry O’Connor:
You’re so great.
Julie Gunlock:
You’re great.
Larry O’Connor:
You’re greater.
Julie Gunlock:
You’re best. You’re the best. And you are great for this country too.
Larry O’Connor:
I’m exhausted.
Julie Gunlock:
Larry, you do a lot of work in the morning to… That’s the motto of the news station, is to make sense of the news. And not a lot makes sense right now. I feel like not a lot, especially on the culture front. So thanks for all you do, because I think that you have a very strong love of country and that shines through on the show and everything you do at Townhall, Salem, and on the radio.
Larry O’Connor:
Well, I’ll tell you, the resources and the support and the knowledge that I glean from all the work that Independent Women’s Forum has done… And honestly, the infrastructure that you guys have created to be able to help people make sense of a very nonsensical world around us, has been so invaluable. And I am forever in debt to Independent Women’s Forum and the incredible energy that I get from all you guys. And also just from the members of the Independent Women’s Network out there who are just fighting these battles in their neighborhoods. They let us know on social media and through various ways how they are the tip of the spear. It’s just so gratifying to know that, listen, we got a lot in front of us and we’re fighting it, but we’re not fighting it alone. We’re fighting it together and with a smile on our face. I mean, you guys are the epitome of happy warriors and that’s my kind of people. So, thank you for everything you guys have done, and thanks for including me in this very special day. This Independence Day 2023.
Julie Gunlock:
Yes. Independence Day. I will never say… I can’t believe I started-
Larry O’Connor:
Oh no, you should. I love shaming people with that. No, I get it. It’s a good shorthand. But let’s not forget the reason for the season, my friends.
Julie Gunlock:
Well listen, thanks again for coming on. I hope you’ll come back. We all love you. We’re all big fans of Larry O’Connor at IWF, so-
Larry O’Connor:
Thank you. And I’m your fan.
Julie Gunlock:
All right.
Larry O’Connor:
All right.
Julie Gunlock:
All right.
Larry O’Connor:
Bye.
Julie Gunlock:
The Bespoke Parenting Podcast with Julie Gunlock is a production of the Independent Women’s Forum. You can send comments and questions to [email protected]. Please help me out by hitting the subscribe button and leaving a comment or review on Apple Podcast, Acast, Google Play, YouTube, or iwf.org. Hang in there parents, and go Bespoke.
