In their new book, Getting Education Right: A Conservative Vision for Improving Early Childhood, K–12, and College, Frederick M. Hess and Michael Q. McShane outline a principled conservative vision that could cultivate schools that are formative, flexible, and human. In this supersized Students Over Systems episode, Rick and Mike encourage conservatives to advocate for local control, tradition, and opportunity while avoiding the lure of The Next Big Thing in technocratic K-12 education policy. We discuss the extremely progressive teacher training cartel, parental responsibilities, setting clear expectations for school discipline, “grifters and lunatics” who prey on parents’ frustrations, Edmund Burke’s little platoons, and much more.

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